Saturday, October 22, 2011

Calvary Enters JV with Property Developer


Calvary enters JV with property developer

After banks reject loans to CCC

At the recent EGM of Calvary Church held on 23 September 2011, the Board of Deacons announced that all their recent loan applications to various Banks to finance the construction of the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) have been rejected.

Previously, the Church had only managed to secure a RM35 million loan from Alliance Bank and a RM8 million loan from Public Bank. However, the Church is still short of at least RM75 million to complete the project.


The wasteful RM300 million project (Phase 1 and 2) has been plagued with problems after problems since commencement of works. Despite the recent fanfare of the cornerstone-laying ceremony at the site, the ability of the Church to complete the CCC remains in doubt.


Having failed to secure additional Bank borrowings, the Church is now embarking into a Joint Venture with a small Property Developer to develop the 1.75 acre commercial land adjoining the CCC site to build Serviced Apartments. The Developer, Exsim Development is a relatively new industrial park Developer with 2 on-going industrial developments in Bukit Rimau and Kota Damansara. Recently, they ventured into their first condo development at Bukit Jalil called the Treez.


The Joint Venture between the Church and Exsim has been disguised as a sale of land at a highly inflated price of RM55 million with payments staggered until 2015. Deacon Zoo Gin admitted during the presentation that the market value of the land is only about RM17 million. From this, it can be inferred that the difference of RM38 million represents the profit share from the proposed apartment development.

The obvious reason to camouflage the Joint Venture as a sale is for tax planning purposes (defined as the legal form of tax evasion). The other reason is aptly said by Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) at the EGM that “we do not want to be seen as going into business”.


Zoo Gin claimed that the Board had consulted a Tax Agent on the tax implications of the sale and the Tax Agent has opined that the sale transaction, although at inflated price, falls under the Real Property Gains Tax and therefore, the gain is not taxable as the Church has held the land for more than 5 years. (If the sale proceeds is recorded as profit share from property development, the entire RM55 million less the original cost of land will be taxable.)


Zoo Gin clarified that the land title will be transferred to Exsim only upon full payment of the RM55 million. Should this be the case, then when the Apartments are sold, the individual Sale and Purchase Agreements will surely state Calvary Church as the Landowner and Exsim as the Developer.


In such a scenario, how then, is the Church going to convince the Tax Department that this arrangement is not a Partnership or Joint Venture and should not be taxable? PG and his Deacons may fool the members but can they fool the Tax Department?


This commonly used strategy of hiding profits from property development in marked-up Sale and Purchase Agreements can easily be challenged by the Tax Department. The Church will run the risk of public exposure and a fine but the worst consequence is the embarrassment it will bring to the Christian community.




The Calvary-Exsim Deal

Exsim will buy the land for RM55 million on a staggered payment basis as follows:-



Upon signing the Sale and Purchase agreement, Exsim pays the church 2% of Purchase Price equal to RM1.1 million. This earnest money is refundable should the Development Order (DO) for Apartment Development not be approved by DBKL. In such an event, Zoo Gin said that with the refund to Exsim, the status would be back to square one.

Exsim will pay the church RM13.0 million in February 2012 from a Bank loan which Exsim will obtain by charging the commercial land to the Bank. Exsim will bear the interest cost on this RM13.0 million loan. This will be a Third Party Charge as the land title would still be in the Church’s name. By this time, the Church would have received RM14.1 million but the land would have been charged to a Bank. Deacon Zoo Gin told the members that this is OK because the land was bought for RM7.0 million and the present value is RM17.0 million.

Exsim will pay the Church RM2.0 million a month from July to December 2012 totalling RM12.0 million and the balance of RM28.9 in quarterly instalments from March 2013 to December 2015.

In addition to the RM55.0 million, Exsim will make a donation of RM1.5 million to the CCC building fund. This donation will be paid in 2013.

The reason why Exsim was chosen

Zoo Gin informed the members that they had 3 proposals from 3 parties namely Seal Group Bhd, E & J (the contractor doing the reinforced concrete work for CCC) and Exsim. Seal Group Berhad did not turn up for the interview because they could not meet the Church’s requirements while E & J is merely a Contractor and not a Developer. Zoo Gin claimed that no other Developer was interested although invited. Therefore, Exsim was the only option.

Zoo Jin said that they have checked Exsim’s financials and found their financial strength to be “sufficient and acceptable”. A member asked him to elaborate with figures. He declined saying that it is not appropriate to disclose at the public meeting. Either he had something to hide or he was simply ignorant of the fact that private limited companies’ financials, shareholders and directors’ details are in the public domain and can be easily obtained from the Companies Commission.

Who is going to bear the risk should this JV deal not work?

Exsim has a very good deal. They only pay a refundable deposit of RM1.1 million for the option to develop the land with absolutely no risk. Even if they take up a loan in their own name to pay the Church the second payment of RM13 million, they are not at risk as the collateral is the Church land. The risk is on the Church. In the event of a default in loan repayment by Exsim, the Church will have to come out with the money to repay the bank or stand to lose the land.


Even if the DO is obtained, there is no certainty that the Apartment Development will sell. In order for Exsim to pay the Church RM55 million and still make a development profit, Exsim will have to build about 400 apartments and sell them for at least RM750,000 each to generate a gross development value of RM300 million, based on an average development profit of 30%. That is certainly a tall order for that locality and during a time of anticipated severe economic downturn by the time the apartment project is launched. If Exsim does not make profit, then the Church may not receive the full sum of RM55 million.

With such risks and the uncertainty of getting the full payment of RM55 million, why then is PG and his Deacons pushing for this transaction?

Rumours of a side deal are aplenty especially since it is an open secret that all, if not most, of the final negotiations with contractors and suppliers and probably in this case, Exsim as well, are done by PG and his son alone. That aside, without doubt, it is definitely a case of pure desperation that PG and his Deacons are willing to take this risk. The clock is ticking fast and money is just not coming in as PG had hoped.

On the EGM, it was good to note that there are new faces who are beginning to ask questions but unfortunately these voices are still few in numbers. Without saying, of course, the supporters of PG at the EGM, shouted praises to God and voted yes to the sale.



Clip #1 : Listen to the 3 Options presented by Zoo Gin.




Clip 2 : Listen to the terms of the JV

257 comments:

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Anonymous said...

" I AM THE IMAM FOR MUSLIMS EVERYWHERE"

The above quote came from the lips of Gadaffi earlier this year.In simple language, he said that he represents all Muslims before God- A Priestly kind of role-- a Mediator between mankind and God. Thats is a very dangerous title to crown oneself with.Today his death was shown around the world- beaten to a bloody death by his own countryman.Only last year he began to describe himself the "Kings of Kings". The last person to crown himself with that lofty title was the Shah of Iran. That was the same year the Ayatollah rose to power and ended the monarchy in Iran.Needless to say - the Shah ran for his life.

How do these things happen? One year they are at the height of political power and by the next they are broken without human hands.

The AOG system is now ridden with dubious titles. One title belongs to God. " Holy and Reverend is His Name" Seems the AOG preachers have crowned themselves with this title that belongs to the Most High God.
Of course they did not want to use the full Names, and so the "Holy" is omitted and only the Reverend is used because they know themselves.

In my opinion, these AOG preachers are treading on dangerous ground. Maybe that why God is exposing them here and there.Famous Rev. this year and next year- the scandal is exposed.

I see so many big churches thes days. But how many are visitng the orphans and feeding the poor and visiting those in prison? In the previous church I attended- mission trip was held once a year and and church would be splattered with photographs of missionary activity.A visitor would have thought that we were deeply involved with those groups but it was an eyewash.

Today its become dangerous to just start attending church. Pray as a family before choosing a church.Only God can guide you to a proper pastor- otherwise chances are you will be listening to a smooth talking conPastor.

I am very much concerned with aht is ahppening to day. May God protect His sheep from wolved and theives who sneak in from the backdoors.

THERE IS ONLY ONE IMAM AND ONE PRIEST BETWEEN MAN AND THE MOST HIGH GOD AND HE IS THE REAL REVEREND. A MILLION TONGUES IS NOT ENOUGH TO SING HIS PRAISES.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 22, 2011 2:42 PM

Anonymous said...

It is the SAME MODUS OPERANDI for all these imposters evangelists/pastors worldwide – giving the excuse that God gave them a vision to build grandeur churches in order to fleece their congregations and fatten their own bellies and lifestyles.

Anon 21 Oct 2011 5:00 pm has put it so well – how come these guys did not receive visions to visit the orphans or the poor – to show them love and concern???

It is indeed a blessing to have this blog around – exposing their fraudulent techniques.

God bless you all bloggers.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 22, 2011 2:42 PM

Anonymous said...

WHEELING DEALING GAMBLER ?

Dare we the congregation and concerned Christians continue to trust and respect this rogue leader's mad scheme via JV with an relatively unknown and small developer, to seek out more money in his latest wheeling dealing gamble, exposing cc to ever increasing risks of being bankrupted ? As usual we the members are purposely kept in the dark with minimal information from the rogue leadership - even though we are coaxed and cajoled to "give sacrificially" to ccc fund. We should stop to think over the serious implications and effects of this hare brained scheme. for example, we should ponder why all the banks withdrew loan facilities ? Does this sign not show that this unholy, selfish, conceited, bullying priest definitely cannot be "annointed" by God ? Otherwise God would have intervened to prevent such disastrous event from happening, right ?

Beware of the conmen in church, dear brothers and sisters.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 22, 2011 10:21 PM

Anonymous said...

Firstly it's an unequally yoked JV.
Next is that the CCC project is already facing big financial delima. If this new 'housing project' fails. then it's double trouble for Calvary Church. Church playing high stake finance game.It's more prudent to play safe and cut loss and drstically scale down plans.

Anonymous said...

Sinking deeper and deeper in the miry pit of self delusion and deception. :-(

Anonymous said...

Hey ladies and gentleman, you know last week when i attend a church near my house, the Mission Director stressed how the church were involved in so many projects such as Feeding the school children in Cambodia, locally visiting the sick in hospital and prison and so many more Mission activities. The PASTOR STRESSED THAT ALL THE MONIES COLLECTED WILL NOT GO TO THEIR STAFF.

HA, HA, he must have hear a lot of Calvary's PASTORS.


When i am in Calvary, i SELDOM hear all these. All i knew is every beginning of the month they will collect a Mission offering. Again, we dont know whether the monies are channelled to the "so called mission need or not" BUT then FOUND OUT NOT ALL ARE CHANNELLED.

IN CALVARY ALL THE PASTORS ARE CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT GIVING. So SP say dont want to sound like a business deal? He really think all the members are stupid.

Anonymous said...

Look like all the banks have read the Income Statement posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 " Has TOTT Worked? "

LOANS based on NETT Income ! The 7 lean years coming !

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 10:54 AM

Anonymous said...

SEPERTI PAGAR MAKAN PADI

This is cynicism at its worst. The fence is supposed to protect the padi field- instead it start s munching the padi itself.

This is an allegory of many AOG pastors today.The last AOG I attended,the Pastor never visited anyone. he simply stated from the pulpit- " I can't neglect the Word of God and start serving at tables". Rather his demeanor and attitude was that of a boss.Even bad mouths other ministers -Everyones has got a problem except himself.The pure Lamb of God walking on earth-such is the spiritual state of many Pastors today.

ACHAN IN THE HOUSE

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 12:46 PM

Anonymous said...

God bless all the worshippers at CC.Remember do not stress yourself out on the issue of giving.God loves you regardless of how much you can give. And dont give your bonus money away. Take your family for a much needed holiday. Eat well and rest well.And have a stress free Sabbath.-- LOve you all.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 1:09 PM

Anonymous said...

"Exsim will pay the church RM13.0 million in February 2012 from a Bank loan which Exsim will obtain by charging the commercial land to the Bank. Exsim will bear the interest cost on this RM13.0 million loan. This will be a Third Party Charge as the land title would still be in the Church’s name."

Is Exsim taking the loan from an Islamic Bank or the Islamic side of a conventional bank? Nowadays Banks somehow prefer that you take out Islamic loans. If that is the case then the church land would be charged to an Islamic bank governed under Syariah law. CC would have voluntarily agreed to come under Syariah law.

The deacons and trustees must not allow this to happen even if PG tells you it is OK. Don't sell out Jesus for a loan.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 6:35 PM

Anonymous said...

ONE EYED BEING KING OVER THE BLIND

Almost like something out of Aesop's fables, we sure remember our childhood favourite tales including the onme about the one eyed man being the KING over his subjects who are ALL BLIND, each and everyone of them. Simply because he had one advantage over them - he could see, though one eyed, they all can't.

Comparatively speaking, imagine in our mind's eyes, in this Aesop's fables storyland, a more serious situation developed whereby the one eyed king suddenly becomes TOTALLY BLIND too.

So... the situation becomes very critical such that the status quo changed dramatically to infamous "THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND" !!!

Such is the tragedy that befalls our cc, over the ccc financial crisis, due to the rash, illogical and absurd decision of the rogue priest and his bunch of zombie slaves, in the jellylike form of BOD, who simply endorses all his whims and fancies, including the latest issue of JV. (Note We think the BOD loves liking his boots or even his smelly toes. Maybe they got foot fetishes ! Like Imelda Marcos.)

We thought Nasi lemak 2.0 was very funny, hilarious, comical, but the theatre of the absurd - beats Nasi Lemak 2.0 flat - played by principal character of the rogue priest, who once boasted that if he were to enter the secular world he would make his mark as a VERY OUTSTANDING businessman !

We totally agree up with his arrogant remark only that he is NOT outstanding BUT STANDING OUTSIDE basic human decency, normalcy, integrity and wisdom - even common sense !

We laughed until tears rolled down our cheeks. Ha ! Ha ! Ha !

You don't agree - we ask you, who in the world EXCEPT PLAIN COMPLETE IDIOTS, definitely not prudent practical experienced businessmen/or women, would have a limited shortlisting of only THREE candidates viz firstly a contractor (not a developer - straightaway out), secondly a candidate who failed to satisfy prequisite terms and conditions... leaving only the choice of ONE socalled developer, uno, satu sahaja, repeat satu sahaja ... Which leads us to validly ask the "panel of judges" aka "Selection Committee" : Why do you have such a poverty of numbers ? And we are talking about property worth MILLIONS and MILLIONS of our hard earned RINGGIT MALAYSIA !!! And we are shocked to why the other developers avoided participating in this scheme. surely we deserve to find out more about its background by checking more thoroughly about his small developer, which we understand originally are involved in the timber based industry, with very limited development projects, currently including only ONE residential project, the others being industrial projects.

Plus why the need to "camouflage" this JV as a "Sale" ? Why should the leadership try to "camouflage" ? We appreciate clarification from the leadership -Is there any attempt to cheat Inland Revenue Department ? Are the allegations true ?

Jesus Himself said to pay to Rome what is due to Rome ... so is the allegation of attempt to cheat the govt true ? If yes, repeat, if yes, we believe it is against biblical teachings.

We would seriously like to nominate this BLIND KING the International Idiot of the Year Award. And the equally stupid members of BOD for their supporting roles in this COMEDY !!!

Surely we are not going to give sacrificially to such mad hatter plans. Better donate to otehr worthy Christian causes, like orphanages, old folks homes, chritable organisations etc.

The ccc fiasco has sucked us like a whirl pool into deeper quick sand pit, plunging us into deeper crisis, beringing bankruptcy and humiliation and destruction of cc and ccc.

Please stop donating our money into this mad scheme !

Turn off the tap (TOTT). Stop this regime and its crazy crackpot schemes by bycotting its suspected hopeless plans. May God confound the plans of the evil ones.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 8:21 PM

Anonymous said...

NEGOTIATIONS BY PG AND SON

We refer to the blog CALVARY ENTERS JV WITH PROPERTY DEVELOPER. We understand after reading from the blog that only PG and son were involved in the final negotiations. In view of the rogue leader's previous history of behavior against truth, transparency and godly governance, we became very much troubled and disturbed about what was actually discussed and agreed upon, in writing and verbally, by the parties involved, in the said negotiations. Was the fear of GOD and the wellbeing and concern of cc always foremost in the minds and hearts of these socalled representatives during the negotiations ? How can we be sure ?

BTW We read about worldwide economic downturn in the major papers. We are kept uptodate via mass media about the need of tightening our belts, in countries like European Union nations Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy, etc. We hear daily bad news affecting USA.

So how does horrifying harsh reality of this international scope of events help this JV partner / developer during those crucial "construction" and "payment" years from 2012 to 2015 ? Is the timing right for the property market ? What if, somehow the two parties disagree, backed out ? What happens next about compensation ? what happens if the development project is abandoned halfway ?

Have the two "experts" (a rogue religious priest and a project director with allegedly, ane we think, perhaps, possibly, no relevant qualified engineering/construction experience and no related professional skills) examined these facts ? Or did they not bother about such "small details" ?

Can you hear the silence of the lambs, the weak bleats, expiring ... as they are being slaughtered, one by one, one by one, one by one ? The words "cut throats' opens a new dimension of macabre, horror for cc. Beware of the destroyer Satan attacking our church.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 8:54 PM

Anonymous said...

This JV cannot save CCC. By December 2012 only RM26.1 million would have been received. They need at least RM75 million to finish stage 1A and 1B for the sanctuary to be useable. It looks like the deacons did not tell the members the whole plan. Why go into the JV and charge the land when the rest of the financing cannot be seen. The deacons probably have some idea what they are going to do but are not telling the members. Why no member ask them this question?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 23, 2011 9:49 PM

Anonymous said...

If the CCC is really what God wanted PG to build to glorify Him and what He intended for KL, the funds will somehow be met without all these nonsense of JV, "begging from pulpit......The web of deception keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Anonymous said...

RY behaved strangely at DH today. Halfway through his message, he blurted out "Correct me if I'm wrong." Then he spoke about Give us our daily bread. Why did he start this part of his message in a apologetic remark?

Then he spoke about "you found all your debts zero, paid by CC because you gave offerings weekly."

This two parts are contrary to what he had said in Cheras.

This brings to conclusion that he must have either read about the criticisms in leveled at him or brought to his attention.

Today, SK did not mention one word about the RM12 mil. urgently required for the progress payment by year end. It was earlier commented in this blog that SK will use any ruse he can conceive to ask for money for this RM12 mil.

Thus if the APs deny reading or knowing the comments therein, do you buy it??? I don't. I rest my case.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 12:30 AM

Anonymous said...

EENY, MEENY, MINY, MOE ...

Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe,
Catch PeeGee1 the monkey by its toe,
Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe,
If it hollers, let it go,
Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe.

Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe,
PeeGee1 is "very loving" man,
Eeny, Meeny. Miny, Moe,
He loved wardrobe malfunction,
He loved closing the kindergarten,
He loved sack his ex-deacon,
He loved dissolving the church choir,
He loved lying through his teeth,
he's so "loving" ...

He loved axing the 400,
He loved changing the church constitution,
He loved bullying members,
He loved removing ladies from the church,
He loved switching off microphones,
He loved cursing TTG,
he's so "loving"...

He loved giving love offerings to his supportive buddies,
He loved creating high paying positions for his family dynasty,
He loved staying in his Bangsar bungalow,
He loved driving imported cars,
He loved fine dining,
he loved exclusive shopping,
He loved overseas trips,
He loved enjoying all the perks,
charging all to cc,
he's so "loving" ...

He loved begging for more money.
AND
He loved reminding us to give sacrificially ...
He loved giving us such privilege and opportunity to give donations ...
for his beloved ccc ...
he's so "loving" ...

Eeny, Meeny. Miny, Moe.

Do we still want PeeGee1 monkeying around in cc ?
Really, he's not so loving to us all ...
The monkey turned insto a monster,
Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 9:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Joint Venture with Exsim

From the kind of wheeler-dealer negotiation deals entered by PG and his son surreptitiously (probably with the silent consent of the BOD) during these trying economic conditions, it does NOT reflect any kind of wisdom by them at all.

How come such “anointed” servants of God do not even have simple common financial sense. My only conclusion is: they just CAN’T be God’s anointed ones as I do not see any wisdom of God being displayed in all that they do.

What a joke – ha ha ha

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 10:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Then he spoke about "you found all your debts zero, paid by CC because you gave offerings weekly."

.................................

Me and my colleagues laughed out loud when we read the above pathetic speech by RY.

1. Firstly, how does he know that we working folks out here are debt free? We always had our debts- the car and the house.Its doubtful if many at CC could have afforded to pay the above necessities in cash.

2.Maybe he got a debt free loan from the CC - that's why he is talking through the nose.

3.The above speech smacks a Sales pitch again. "because you gave ...you were debt free!!" Ha..ha...hee.hee. I am afraid you are out of touch with the church RY.

RY is no more the Pastor we used to know.He is now a salesman and is gone after filthy lucre and converted into a sly sort of character- trying to take CC folks on a guilt trip for not giving enough.

Let him show by his example- demonstrate sacrificial giving for us- talk is cheap and preaching at CC, it appears now- is just pure sales talk.

I think we had enough of this crap being churned out from CCs pulpit right now- because that's what it is.RY-do the right this- you cannot be using the pulpit to squeal for money again and again- its downright disgraceful.

Is your conscience seared??-tell SP you cant do this anymore. That would be more honourable than to squat at CC and earn your bread in this way- ITS SO SHAMEFUL FOR A PASTOR!!!WHAT A DISGRACE!! We all have financial commitments out here man- so don't stress out the congregation with your sly money talk!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 12:32 PM

Anonymous said...

MENANG JADI ABU- KALAH JADI ARANG.

If you win, you become ashes
If you lose, you become like burnt charcoal.

This is the predicament that CC is right now.

I cant believe at what is happening right before our eyes. We were a fine church. Today with all the money at our disposal we could have become a Missionary Church and support missionary activity all over the world, care the poor,orphan and needy in our midst.Gods Heart.

But CC is being converted into a stagnant pool - no thanks to SP and Gang. I am not surprised that Rev.Jerry Chow has bolted to Canada. The next surprise would be RY who has already been converted into a Sales Man.

I am glad I left CC although I do visit once in a while.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 12:44 PM

Anonymous said...

I feel grieved after reading the contents of this blog.CCC is a very big project-it is important that the church be in one accord in matters like that. When the sheep began to ask questions- they get axed.Even long time faithfuls were suspended with this excuse " you dont share CC visions anymore" and they are stopped from giving Bible studies.

All AOG Reverends out there-who want to put up big buildings.The church must share your vision- there must be accountability to those who form part of the Christian family.By muscling your way through -what have you proven?

Your bread and butter comes from church people-dont forget that.However did CC get to this state of affairs?

The Banks now are refusing to give loans- and rightly so. We should have stayed as a Church together and spend the money on missions, give to BCM- the one institution that produced most of the AOG Pastors, give a special generous offering to Rev.Ng Kok Kee and family and that old time faithful in the Lord- and send him and family for a holiday.These ministers are very special and they dont ask a sen from anyone but have been serving the Lord quietly for decades,in simple lifestyle without any fanfare or pomp. Lets honour these men while we still can- instead of singings hymns at their funerals.

What is there to complain about this blog?? Why is the blog here in the first place? What caused it?? From what I know Christians simply do not start a quarrel for the sake of quarelling.Something is not right somewhere.

Only matured Christians can guide CC out of this mess right now- but the leadership has to listen.I can see Balaam sitting on his donkey going against Gods will and whacking the donkey......but he was not alone on that road...there was someone standing there blocking his way...and he just was about to find out.

Dont make Balaam's mistake.


"Great are His mercies"

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 24, 2011 7:25 PM

Anonymous said...

FROM THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE

We think the saying "From the frying pan into the fire" would seem a very appropriate description of the critical cirumstances affecting cc members over ccc. We believe cc is sinking deeper into more debts every passing day - yet the rogue leadership painted a rosy picture about the JV as a viable option to deceive the congregation. They gave a "feel good feeling" by announcing the land has been fully paid up. Yet we suspect the outstanding amount is very huge. More worst news came - the banks stopped extending more loan facilities, perhaps due to their knowledge of the present financial crunch via drop in collections. Maybe, there could be other factors affecting their decision to deny cc more loans.

However, we tend to believe it is God's hands on this matter, determining the direction it is heading. and in handling the rogue priest and his gang.

Naturally, good shall triumph over evil. It is an inevitable conclusion.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 12:06 AM

EENY, MEENY, MINY, MOE # 2 said...

Dear "EENY, MEENY, MINY, MOE ...",

Thanks for the Great Poem but you have missed out something .....


Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe,
PeeGee1 is "very loving" man,
Eeny, Meeny. Miny, Moe,

He loved to put his Legs On The Table (LOTT),
So his informed members gave him Turn Off The Tap (TOTT),
He loved to move RM 200,000 per annum to his personal ministry (CIM),
So his informed members inform the uninformed members,
He loved to get the "sack" from Lake Club,
He loved to be spotted at Sun Complex,
He loved to use church funds on his grandchildren,
He loved to use church funds to buy his Fitness Club membership,
He loved to .........

Posted by EENY, MEENY, MINY, MOE # 2 to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 12:25 AM

Anonymous said...

Has CC got the RM12 mil that is required to pay the contractor? Or has CC decided to draw on the loan?

The first time when SK mentioned that CC needs RM12 mil by December was at the Cornerstone laying event on Oct.2.

On Oct. 9, when Richard Roberts was the guest speaker at CC, SK did not mentioned this. Maybe it was because the church does not want Richard to know that CC is in direr straits.

On Oct. 16, CL was the worship leader. Again there was no mention of the RM12 mil.

On Oct. 23, SK also did not talk about this.

Three Sundays consecutively, there was no mentioning of the RM12 mil. CC needs by December. Surprise, surprise. This is not the normal style of SK.

Has it dawned on SK, PG and his adherents that TOTT is working great and CC has run out of excuses to get the congregation to part with their money.

PG and SK can go on appealing for money and more money but surely it will not be forthcoming. Wonder when will SK broach this subject again?

Recent events indicate that the money is not coming in. There was no mention about the money raised from the Golf Fellowship; the Cornerstone Gift only managed a pathetic pledge of RM500k for three months; there was no mention of the money collected in relation to the so-called Seed faith by Richard Roberts.

What is of great concern to PG and SK is the continuous fall of the faith Promise collection from July to September. Up to week 3 of October, only RM144k was collected. (The figure pledged is RM469k monthly).

Any sane person can deduce that TOTT is working GREAT!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 12:34 AM

Anonymous said...

"Calvary enters JV with property developer. After banks reject loans to CCC."
The above caption confirmed the ARROGANCE & STUBBORN Spirits within Calvary Church Leadership are coming to a conclusion! CLEANSING by FIRE is a very painfulprocess! Prophecy will be fulfilled in due TIME !

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 9:36 AM

Anonymous said...

Faith Promise collection is indeed falling. Last Sunday, the chart displayed showed RM144,231 was collected up to Week 3. Week 4 is over and the coming Sunday Oct. 30 is Week 5.

Knowing SK's style, he will probably say something like this "This is the last Sunday of the month. The church gives you an opportunity to fulfill your pledges." It is rather ironical when the church says "The church gives you an opportunity to this... and that..." The interpretation is the church is taking this opportunity to get you to empty your pockets.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 1:15 PM

Anonymous said...

It is beyond comprehension how a prophet of God ie PG and his associates can get CC into such a mess and deeper and deeper into the sinkhole - financially, morally and spiritually.

This only shows to prove that PG and his circle of associates are irresponsible and do not have the interests of the flock of Christians under their care. And it also demonstrates they are NOT true shepherds of the Lord's sheep in CC. This is their true color, no matter how they justified themselves and their actions.

Sad to say over time (succumbed by their obsession for wealth, fame and self-glorification at the expense of the congregation), they have lost their first love for Jesus and their passion and enthusiasm to do God's will according to God's way of doing things. Like the church in Ephesus, a city in Turkey, mentioned in Revelations 2 Jesus warned them because they lost their first love, their lampstand will be removed forever and become desolate - which has come to pass. Today the church in Ephesus has disintegrated into oblivion.

Out of brotherly concern for their spiritual welfare and the welfare of existing members in CC, repeated warnings and advice have been given in this blog, asking them to repent of their iniquities - but to no avail. Though God is forbearing and forgiving, there is also a limit to His patience.

Do not think by wheeling and dealing, you can escape the coming disaster.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 2:10 PM

Anonymous said...

I BELIEVE THAT GOD IS CLEANSING THE HOUSE OF AOG WITH FIRE.CC LEADERSHIP STOP BLAMING ANYONE- LOOK UNTO YOURSELVES. BYE.

WHEN ANY LEADERSHIP GOES DEAF- THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.IT IS HOPED THAT ALL TOUGH TALKING AOG PASTORS REFLECT ON THIS SORDID EPISODE AND LEARN THE LESSON.

YOU ARE SHEPHERDS OF THE FLOCK- NOT ITS BUTCHERS.THE REVEREND TITLE IS GIVEN TO SERVE- NOT TO LORD OVER THE FLOCKS AND MAKE THEIR LIFE MISERABLE.

I REMEMBER ONE AOG REVEREND COMMENTED ON THOSE AXED AT CC SOME TIME AGO- "AND WHAT IS IT THAT THEY(the axed) CAN DO??)HIS ARROGANCE AND SENSE OF POWER WAS JUST UNBELIEVABLE.

WELL AOG PASTORS- YOU SEE WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.TOTT HAS DONE GREAT WONDERS!!!! KINDLY TAKE NOTE OF THAT.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 2:26 PM

Anonymous said...

THE NEW GREAT COMMISSION
Go ye into all the world and start to build big buildings.Never mind if you don't have the money,just borrow from the Banks.After all the church folks can pay for it.What - they think salvation and the things of God are for free? There is no such thing as something for nothing.It has always been something for something.


Re-write the hymnsong- ' Nothing in my hands I bring..."

Times have changed- you must bring something in your hands..

Ohhh Brother@!!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 25, 2011 5:51 PM

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7ZHrYL28M&sns=em

New Script said...

ALL FLUFF

It's simply amazing how PG & his Dynasty, BOD +
The CCC Committee will do whatever it takes to hook wink the congregation with all the fluff concerning this JV which they guaranteed themselves of *'Millions of Profit', even with NOTHING in place, but all up in the air! (Pie in the Sky!)
(* How do they arrive at this figure --on what basis??? They sure make getting Million$ as easy like Kacang-Putih. Master of Disguise.

They are truly world class 'SPINNER' of Tales: Best Actors, Best Director, Best Supporting Cast, Best Scriptwriter, Best Producer...

Do hope everyone knows it's CCC BOLLYWOOD:
A Blockbuster no less!

Posted by New Script to Calvary Today 2 at October 26, 2011 1:11 AM

Anonymous said...

FROM THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE.....Nam Fatt fiasco chapter 2 in the making???
After listening to the tape from the blog 'Calvary Enters JV with Property Developer' i just cannot fathom the depth of stupidity as demonstrated by the CCC Finance Committee. It also smacks of sheer lack of financial acumen. Looks like the committee never or refuse to learn from the Nam Fatt fiasco. When NF was awarded the contract in September 2007 (Ref. CCC:The Alarming Facts') i asked myself why NF. Just look at their poor track record. And true enough NF became history and was terminated in November 2009. Still remember the losses financially and otherwise CC suffered? Coming to the current deal, there are some very disturbing and worrying observations. i am not a lawyer or property consultant so i hope someone can enlighten not only me but other concerned sheep as well regarding the following areas of concern:
1. Zoo Gin said upon signing the Sale and Purchase agreement, Exsim pays the church 2% of Purchase Price amounting to RM1.1 million. He also mentioned this 2% as earnest money. Who is he trying to hookwink? Isn't earnest money paid to 'seal' one's intention when someone wants to purchase a property before the S and P is ready? And when he signs the S and P he pays 10%. If Exsim can't even come up with the 10% of the Purchase Price , can you trust them with a RM300 million project!!! This is simply UNBELIEVABLE!!
2. Listening carefully to the tape Zoo Gin mentioned under key concerns '...in case DO not approved the earnest money of 2% will be returned to us...' Was it a slip of the tongue or was there something else? How can... the money be returned to us...unless the $$$ upon signing the S and P has migrated somewhere else.
3. He also confidently mentioned in the event the DO not approved...'we will be back to where we started...its no loss to us...' He did not mention the time frame for the DO to be approved or whether Exsim will get a bank loan ...'while waiting for approval.
4. From the tape it is obvious that the developer will be paying CC with money from bank loan they secured by a legal charge over CC's land. So Zoo Gin how can you say '...it's no loss to us...we still hold the title.. the title is not transferred until full payment is made...'. In the event the loan repayment is defaulted what will happen to the land? Don't you think the bank will auction off the land to recover the loan granted to the developer?
5. Zoo Gin also mentioned that the developer did not agree to '...bank guarantees and guarantees of payment...' Doesn't the fact that the developer refused to agree to bank guarantees of payment tells us something about their reservation as to the success or completion of the project?
Dear members of the CCC Finance Committee, you sign a deal with a rather unknown developer with no great track record, agree to a miserable 2% earnest money upon signing S and P, let them charge the church land for who knows what amount of loan, allow them to pay by instalments over FIVE years with no bank guarantees of payment...and yet you have the guts to say '...this is the best deal we can have...win-win...minimise the risk...blah..blah..blah...' Even a donkey can see this is a one-sided win situation to the developer!! What a crap and what a bunch of jokers. You have made a blunder with NF and with the kind of deal you signed with E, you have the audacy to say '...the CCC Finance Committee will closely monitor the progress (payment?)...'
Btw can service apartments(residential) be built on commercial land?
Anyway is Exsim a Christian based developer? If not then please go back to the Bible for the Word very clearly tells us not to be unequally yoked and that includes business deals, JV etc

ANOTHER SMALL FRY


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 26, 2011 6:53 AM

Anonymous said...

THREE LITTLE WORDS - WHAT ABOUT YOU ?

Referring to Oct 25 12.34 aqm blog comments, we believe with great confidence we could solve the "mysterious silence" surrounding the RM 12 million during all services throughout the past three Sundays.

Do you want to know the truth we think is truly the situation ?

We think the rogue leader and his crooked assistant priests are scared of "three little words".

No, it is not "I love you".

They now keep very quiet about the RM 12 million because they are scared the congregation would ask them back, "WHAT ABOUT YOU ?" when they tell the members to give sacrificially ! You don't see them
giving cash donations generously to ccc fund ! You don't see them taking bank loans to help ccc financially ! You don't see them selling off or pledging their expensive properties to save ccc ! You don't see them offering their expensive brand new cars for sale, then giving all the money to ccc fund ! You don't see them skipping overseas holidays and trips for ccc's sake ! (But you hear SK's long wait applying for his passport during his Sunday service delivery at the pulpit. And we suspect the passposrt cannot be to travel to Singapore only, but much further destinations overeseas, like perhaps USA !). You don't see them skipping meals for ccc's sake but having fine dining regularly.

They do not practise what them preach to the members ! Real hypocrites and parasites !

They now shut up because of te three litttle words "WHAT ABOUT YOU ?"

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 26, 2011 7:50 AM

Anonymous said...

I think those who spread the news of how evil is PG and his gang via verbal to their friends and neighbors have bring great awareness, and save many from heartache in giving to ccc.
I suggest that a PDF (adobe) file be made, summarizing PG's sin and CC saga, so that we could circulate it via email; because many still have not internet access to CT, although they allowed to use email in office.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 26, 2011 10:42 PM

Anonymous said...

I remembered noticing (years ago) that PG used to pass the offering bag to the one next to him, without putting anything into it!And I used to wonder how come. I wonder if he still does that.

Anonymous said...

Yes,I have heard some of them are beginning to feel uncomfortable and sensed something hypocritical in their behaviour and their lifestyles.
People are beginning to question if they do lived by what they preached.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 27, 2011 1:03 PM

Anonymous said...

Me thinketh the modern day Titanic is sinking.
It was so easy for SP to issue a letter to Dr Lum calling for his immediate suspension.This demonstration of AOG power backfired this time around. There seems to be much power concentrated in the hands of these AOG Reverends.And they are dangerous.Their superior position is totally unscriptural and is governed by the spirit of this world.And so they manifest the fruit of the world.Everyone seems to crave for more power.And the system seems to exist to satisfy this craving for more power by giving Titles of Reverends,Dr. Reverends OR Senior Pastor Dr.Reverends.We hear very little about servanthood these days.I suspect that some of this guys are not called in the first place.They need to sit down and think what is it that they really want.When they see more money- they dont want to think about missionary work- instead he claims that this verse jumped out at him during this mornings devotion" enlarge the place of your tents..."( Isaiah) I have heard this crap from so many AOG Reverends already.

With much regrets.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 27, 2011 2:46 PM

Anonymous said...

MENTAL INSANITY AT THE WORKPLACE IN MALAYSIA [CLJ PUBLICATION]

In short, a person's reputation honour and dignity is a priceless possession,an integral part of the rightful meaning of life.Therefore it is the duty of every fair minded person to respect another's dignity and esteem and not willfully violate the same.Intimidation of any sort is a serious violation of individual rights and therefore cannot be condoned.

SIGNS OF mental insanity

1.HUMILIATING OTHERS IN A PUBLIC PLACE BY SHOUTING OR SCREAMING AT THEM SUDDENLY WITHOUT ANY WARNING.

2.ACTING MACHO IN THE PRESENCE OF LADIES.REV.JIM JONES AND REV.DAVID KORESH BOTH HAD THESE TRAITS.BOTH HAD MENTAL PROBLEMS BUT WERE ABLE TO HOODWINK A WHOLE CHURCH BY CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT BIBLE STORIES- AND LED MANY TO THEIR DEATHS

3.ALWAYS BRINGING UP OTHERS SHORTCOMINGS TO BOOST ONE'S SELF.

4.THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE CAUGHT IN A RUT AND GET DEPRESSED THAT OTHERS ARE GOING AHEAD AND THEY ARE NOT.

I believe when SP shouted at Liza and humiliated her like that, and RY the Pentecostal Salesman escorting her out- both have manifested a few of these traits.


TAKE HEED THAT YE BE NOT DECEIVED.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 27, 2011 4:56 PM

Anonymous said...

I don't think there is any hope for those who are part of a religious system.Its the religious system that had problems with Jesus and stoned Stephen the first Christian martyr.All outsiders want to get into the inner circle- but once they get there they loose their individuality and conform to the system- their once original voice just gets drowned in the masses.
THE AOG SYSTEM NEEDS A REVAMP!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 27, 2011 5:44 PM

Anonymous said...

1.HUMILIATING OTHERS IN A PUBLIC PLACE BY SHOUTING OR SCREAMING AT THEM SUDDENLY WITHOUT ANY WARNING.

..............................
MY REV. PASTOR TRIED THIS MACHO CRAP ON ME ONCE BUT I SHOUTED LOUDER THAN HIM, AND HE QUICKLY BACKED OFF.I HAVE 1 OR 2 GIFTS BUT I AM NOT KNOWN FOR TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK. AND I KNOW THAT THESE AOG REVEERENDS ARE NOT KNOWN FOR HUMILTY TOO.

TAKE NO CRAP

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 27, 2011 6:29 PM

SPOTLIGHT said...

"I remembered noticing (years ago) that PG used to pass the offering bag to the one next to him, without putting anything into it!And I used to wonder how come. I wonder if he still does that. "


FYI.
WHEN PG GIVES (Moon turns Blue ), HE MAKES 100% SURE IT COMES WITH DRUM ROLLS, FULL OF DRAMA--& MUST BE ON A GRAND STAGE ( LIKE BUKIT JALIL) FOR ALL AND SUNDRIES TO SEE! AND MAKE CERTAIN ONE OF HIS ASS. PASTORS WILL GIVE A FULL COMMENTARY OF HIS "SACRIFICE" (Like NO LUNCH FOR NEXT FEW MONTHS!..sob,sob : Congregation: "Clap, Clap" )

So, no surprise PG gives the offering bag a"Pass" at regular service.

Posted by SPOTLIGHT to Calvary Today 2 at October 28, 2011 12:56 AM

Anonymous said...

Knowing SK's style, he will probably say something like this "This is the last Sunday of the month. The church gives you an opportunity to fulfill your pledges." It is rather ironical when the church says "The church gives you an opportunity to this... and that..." The interpretation is the church is taking this opportunity to get you to empty your pockets...........

I must say PO is even better and will make an excellent side kick or even sifu to SK! We the Cheras sheep have so often heard this crap from PO...often when a new month comes PO will say "...even though last month is over...even though the Faith Promise for the last six months over...you can still give...don't miss the opportunity etc etc..." And last week after the sermon by PG2...it was really pathetic to see PO's appeal for $$$ during the offering time...when the October Faith Promise figure of RM144231 was shown he said it was collection up to 2nd week and almost immediately some sheep reminded him already 3rd week and only one more week left for October,you can almost see the desperation on his face...i think it must be sheer desperation that forced him to then remind the Cheras sheep "Don't substitute tithes for offering...each/every offering has its purpose...every giving in the Bible has a purpose...helps us in our purpose. GOD GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE AND HE WILL HONOR US... cornerstone, seed.."

Dear pastor PO, you might as well record this so that you can play it back for the Cheras sheep to hear every week even on weeks you are not around. Dear pastor don't you have any guilt or shame when you so very smilingly told the Cheras sheep that since they have given to this to that etc THERE WILL NOT BE A COLLECTION/BUILDING FUND FOR CCC this time. Instead any leftover from the Faith Promise will be chanelled to CCC. How clever! What a 'Feel Good' that everything is okay with CCC until you don't need to collect extra!! Was it a ruse or tactic to make the sheep pledge more in their Faith Promise. How sly!. And then couple of months later you have cornerstone, seed...

Dear PO how can you, such a senior pastor lied to the sheep? i am sure you know cornerstone, seed were coming or is it you really don't know? i wonder what SP and the gang will think of next.

Thanks to this blog, many many sheep have become more aware of the tactics used and no longer like dumb gullible sheep they once were.

I was once one of such dumb sheep. When SP broke the 'alabaster vase' in Bukit Jalil Putra Stadium in 2004, i was so impressed, so touched that i immediately made a pledge and even told my Christian brothers in other churches how great CC was that it was able to build such a grand center for God.
This sheep is no longer gullible. How pitiful when SP tried to repeat this act via the big screen at the cornerstone service.

Keep up the TOTT

TTG keep up your good works! There are many with you either openly or silently.

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 28, 2011 3:26 AM

Anonymous said...

I was once one of such dumb sheep. When SP broke the 'alabaster vase' in Bukit Jalil Putra Stadium in 2004, i was so impressed, so touched that i immediately made a pledge and even told my Christian brothers in other churches how great CC was that it was able to build such a grand center for God.

..................................
Haaaa......hooo....heeee...haaaa........This is really funny.I have always suspected that SP was Bollywood material.Same so with my Rev. Pastor. Can act in drama minggu ini!~!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 28, 2011 2:19 PM

Anonymous said...

When SP broke the 'alabaster vase' in Bukit Jalil Putra Stadium in 2004, i was so impressed, so touched that i immediately made a pledge.
...................................

ALL OF HERE AT THE OFFICE BROKE OUT INTO A LAUGHTER AFTER READING THE ABOVE... OF COURSE WHEN THE BOSS CAME OUT WE SCATTERED INTO OUR RESPECTIVE CUBICLES.HE HAS ASKED THE SUPERVISOR TO GIVE A WRITTEN REPORT AS TO WHAT THE COMMOTION WAS ALL ABOUT. NOW THE SV IS IN A FIX. WHAT IS HE GOING TO WRITE? HE COMES FROM A CONSERVATIVE BAPTIST CHURCH!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 28, 2011 3:42 PM

Anonymous said...

NOW THE SV IS IN A FIX. WHAT IS HE GOING TO WRITE? HE COMES FROM A CONSERVATIVE BAPTIST CHURCH!!!...............
"SORRY BOSS WE JUST GOT NEWS THAT ...ALABASTER VASE #3 AKAN DATANG IN SP AND THE ALABASTER VASE TRILOGY...BILA TAK TAHU...WE THINK IT WILL BE LEBIH BAIK DARIPADA NASI LEMAK 2.0!!..."
Looking at the terrible financial mess SP and his gang of desperadoes has got CC into, tis once dumb sheep won't be surprised if SP perform 'alabaster vase #3' (after Bukit Jalil and Cornerstone) as soon as possible maybe at the coming Christmas presentation in December?
Dear pastor SK you like to interject Chinese phrases in your sermons...perhaps right now you are thinking 'Mo Kam Tai Ker Tau Mo Tai Kam Tai Ker Moe'...i think the next time SP ask you to cari more $$$ you should tell him " I told you so... 'Mo Kam Tai Ker Tau Mo Tai Kam Tai Ker Moe'..."...btw what is the biggest hat in the world...the Mexican hat???
On a more serious note so many concerned Calvarites from Dr Lum, TTG and others right from the very beginning has given their sound advice and concern even before the very first nut was laid of this massive spaceship christened CCC. Seem like one by one these worrying concerns being fulfilled.......
'A long time ago in a Galaxy far far away...
Widespread financial crisis has hit the newly formed GALACTIC EMPIRE hard. Hyper-drive fuel has risen to 100 credits a barrel, hampering the construction of the mighty DEATH STAR.
The time needed to build this armored space station was originally estimated at three years but a recent study has found that at the current rate of construction it's not gonna done for twenty standard years.
Darth Vader, still recovering from being owned by his former master, has been assigned to oversee the construction of this over-budget financial nightmare from his new administrative office...' taken from Part 1 in the Death Star Trilogy..Station Tribulations (Part 1)

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 29, 2011 10:42 AM

Anonymous said...

To able to collect RM144k per month is still considered successful. Imagine many churches hardly able to collect RM5k per month to pay rental and cover bill expenses.
THis shows that whatever TOTT or BGA done is not enough. There are many still give into PG's greed. Worst still, the syndrome of feeling guilty of not paying tithes remain in many victims. If you are honest, you will see many around us like such today. PG and gang don't bother about ministry. But if you love the Lord, then it is your responsibility to care for the victims; and our duty to repair the damage.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 29, 2011 1:16 PM

Anonymous said...

Syndrome of Feeling Guilty – Tithing and Pledge Promises

Anon 29 Oct 2011 1:16 pm – ‘There are many still give into PG's greed. Worst still, the syndrome of feeling guilty of not paying tithes remain in many victims.”

Let me help you to set you free from such guilt feelings, based on the Scriptures of NT teachings and practices as recorded in the Book of Acts and the Epistles.

For far too long, Pentecostal church members have been indoctrinated and brainwashed by these Pentecostal pastors that (1) tithing is COMPULSORY with examples of Abraham gave one-tenth to Melchizedek and under the Mosaic laws and (2) you have made a pledge promise to God that you must fulfill. And if you fail to do so, you have dishonored your pledge and make you feel guilty. This is UTTERLY A LIE.

Tithing: This was practiced during the Patriachal Age (that is during the time of Abraham to Jacob) and the Mosaical Age (it was under the Old Testament laws starting with Moses time), but when Jesus came, He has made the first covenant “obsolete and outdated” (Hebrews 8:12) and it was replaced with a better “new covenant” sealed with His own blood. Q: Did your pastors tell you (church members) this?

In the Book of Acts and the Epistles, nothing is mentioned about tithing again. Church members however are to give FREEWILL offerings (according to their ability and income) but NOT under compulsion every Sunday, the first day of the week, when they come together to worship. “Not under compulsion” means you are NOT COMPELLED to give – 2 Cor 9:7 – Did your pastors tell you this?

1 Cor 16:2 says “On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.” This should be clear enough – as it says “in keeping with your income”.

So, why should you (as church members) feel guilty when (1) tithing is no longer applicable under the NT teachings and not compulsory or mandatory as your pastors tell you, (2) freewill offerings based on your income – no fixed amount such as 10% as it is up to you and (3) pledge promises were made under pressure – on one hand, the pastors will tell you to pray about it, then on the other hand, as they pass the pledges around, they ask you to fill up quickly – thus contradicting themselves.

I used to attend AOG churches but I am so happy I have left their influence and wrong teachings. The church which my family now attends does not practice tithing. We make freewill offerings every Sunday and no pledge promises for this and that which is so prevalent in the Pentecostal churches.

Thank God for the Truth as revealed in the NT.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 29, 2011 7:39 PM

Anonymous said...

Once upon a time, when asking for money, the script was "what you give is between you and God."

Today it is a new script "the church gives you an opportunity to give to this... and that..."

There is no mention of the RM12 mil required presently. After getting the brickbats, SK has learned to avoid this subject because the church has no more excuses to wring more money from the congregation.

PO and SK are losing their cool in such desperate times. Last week the displayed clearly showed Week 3 and yet PO said Week 2. SK had on a number of occasions forgot to welcome new visitors to CC. PO and SK are putting on a front but deep down they are nervous. Sandiwara eh?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 31, 2011 12:14 AM

Anonymous said...

We make freewill offerings every Sunday and no pledge promises for this and that which is so prevalent in the Pentecostal churches.
.............................You were only able to discern the above because God by His Spirit has brought into maturity.It is also a sign of His genuine love for you.

Today every other Minister wants to scrape whatever leftovers you have."Sacrificial giving,Seed Faith Offering,Pastor Days Offering and a whole lot of other AOG Crap- what a way to fleece the sheep. Arent they supposed to care for Gods flock? The Scriptures say much about filthy lucre.Our church practiced Pastor Day's and showered him with holidays and expensive gifts.It only stopped this year that it was scrapped and I suspect it has something to do with this blog.

AOG system is like our Goverment. They are the Reverends and the Board Members are their cronies who wont dare to disagree with these quacks.In our Church the Rev only selected people whom he could control- everyone knows that."Submit to spiritual authority.....blah.. blah...)

My family left the AOG for quite a few years now and we are now settled in another church where we found meaningful relationships and spiritual edification.In our previous church, the pastor was mostly idling around the tea stalls or makan stalls. That's none of our business- but we left. And that was the best decision our family has ever made.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 31, 2011 7:19 PM

Anonymous said...

“Not under compulsion” means you are NOT COMPELLED to give – 2 Cor 9:7 – Did your pastors tell you this?
................................
You think they are going to tell you that? Face up to it- lah--soh chai....they are the "Wan sek" pastors.And they are there just for the money.Of course the genuine ones are there .. but they are only the remnant.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 31, 2011 7:21 PM

Anonymous said...

"what you give is between you and God"

This is no longer mentioned in CC but now PG and SK will make you feel guilty for not giving or fulfilling your pledges.

SK will start with a "feel good " feeling, saying "the Faith Promise is doing well." Then he will say "still a long way to go. This the last Sunday of the month and you can give as you had pledged.

Isn't this contrary to what the church preaches and what they actually practice? Oh well, desperate needs call for desperate actions.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at October 31, 2011 8:56 PM

Anonymous said...

I actually feel sorry and sad for SK. I thought he was doing well in Education and I enjoyed his teaching. He was well liked then but now it seems that his popularity is going down the drain. He should have left when he could.Kesian.

Anonymous said...

The Blind leading the blind

Matthew 15:13-14: “13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit. 16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them.|

So much has been written in this blog about Pentecostal churches and especially AOG churches (and CC in particular).

Jesus advised his listeners: “Leave them; they are blind guides.” If they chose to stick with these religious deviants, then it is obvious – both will fall into a pit. Nothing much we can do – it is their choice in spite of all the warnings.

It happened in Jesus' time and it happens in modern times.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 1, 2011 9:38 AM

Anonymous said...

The arrogance of the CC pastors, their pride & ego, and their self righteous thinking make themselves easy prey for satan to deceive & destroy. Yet they knew not they have been deceived. CCC is satan's object of deception that will ultimately bring about the downfall of CC pastors & BOD. Like the Phoroah of Egypt who refused to change even after seeing God's wrath upon Egypt, CC pastors continued to harden their hearts and refuse to change.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 1, 2011 3:55 PM

Anonymous said...

A) For far too long, Pentecostal church members have been indoctrinated and brainwashed by these Pentecostal pastors that (1) tithing is COMPULSORY with examples of Abraham gave one-tenth to Melchizedek and under the Mosaic laws and (2) you have made a pledge promise to God that you must fulfill. And if you fail to do so, you have dishonored your pledge and make you feel guilty. This is UTTERLY A LIE..............
When i first became a christian years ago and attended an AOG church i was so indoctrinated with this tithing and all sorts of giving, giving and more giving...those early days already got the so-called 'minute man to help plant churches', building pledges, faith promises etc etc etc. Worse still when things doesn't go well or prayers not answered, i used to think it must be due to not fulfilling this or that pledges. Not anymore. Thanks to the various blogs posted on these pages i am finally free of such lies and guilty feelings that had so troubled tis poor sheep all these many many years. Even last sunday when PO showed the video clip of the cornerstone service in cheras, the ulterior motive was more begging for $$$. As if what SP, OSL, SK and the rest's begging in the video was not enough, PO has to again remind the cheras sheep "...everything we do matters... however only that which build eternal kingdom counts?...bring your offerings..., seed, thanksgiving, building pledges(he must be really getting old or desperate when he had already announced months ago there's no more building pledges)...the privilege of giving..." You could see that the main purpose was to remind the sheep to give give and more giving...One of my cousin sisters a very faithful AOG church attendee for many many years suddenly left and when i asked her why, she said the church seemed to be asking $$$ and more $$$ until she had 'enough is enough'. Sadly she thought this is what following Christ is all about and sadder still she no longer attends church. You think any church pastor visited her to show concern? Fat hopes!
Just check the 'Membership at CC' flyer resulting from the BOD connect meeting on 26 November 2010attached to the Jan/Feb.2011 issue of Calvary News and you will realise that to be a member of CC means to give, give, give and give to CC and to bind/abide by the church constitution...(read... be a dumb sheep, be a soh chai just obey and no question asked! Modern day slavery??)Nothing about how CC can help the sheep grow etc.

B) Anonymous (October 31, 2011 7:19 PM )... Today every other Minister wants to scrape whatever leftovers you have........... Still remember last year when the second offering for November and December were collected PO mentioned it was Christmas offerings for missionaries and church workers? i thought it was for poor needy outreaches like the one in Sudan. In December when no-shame pastors like PO and RY2(not the super salesperson but the super song leader who is jobless where preaching is concerned) merrily thanked the sheep (in cheras) in appreciation for the generous Christmas gifts! i was really dumbfounded!! What utter crap. Dear pastors from jan to dec you are paid handsomely by the sheep and you have no shame to ask for christmas gifts of appreciation! And dear pastor RY2 you can afford to send your son to Australia don't you think you should be blessing others? Or was your kid sponsored by the church? Dear calvarites please open your eyes and observe the gifts that pastors received on christmas day and what sort of appreciation they show to the sheep. At the last Chinese evangelistic meeting in cheras PO was wearing a pure silk shirt specially bought from china and given to him as a gift by a cheras sheep who if i am not mistaken had a part in the construction of pusat aktiviti cheras. Poor RY2 you are such close friend of PO like abang-adik, sori '没有分'translated no share' bcos u no power in cheras and u not as senior as PO or RY!!

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 1, 2011 9:01 PM

Anonymous said...

As I had always maintained that even satan had his kind of churches today to deceive and destroy the Word of God. His kind of churches also preaches in Christ name, but not the true Christ of the Bible. Its a "counterfeit christ" a wolf in sheeps clothing. Throughout generations, satan had tried persecutions by killing christians with the hope that this will stop people from believing in Christ. But this plan failed and backfired as the true christians who are willing to die for their faith in Christ had instead won admiration from many hearts to Christ & more and more wanted to be like them and become believers & thus christianity grows. Satan therefore devised another strategy, a plan which worked so well for him today, for satan knew that the only effective way to destroy the Word of God & the children of God is to fight from within, to penetrate inside churches to deceive & caused you to fall away from the truth of God. His plan is to fight Christianity with christianity. His "brand of counterfeit christianity" against "True christianity." So I believed Pentecostal churches of the AOG are his churches, a "wolf in sheeps clothings" created by him to kill, to destroy & to steal. We must know that not all who preaches in the Lord's Name are from God. Even cults preaches in Jesus name, even a gay pastor preaches in Jesus name. The Lord warned us to know these people & the churches "BY THEIR FRUITS". Thus, God had today exposes that AOG are not from Him.

Even when CC pastors read this, I can imagined their hearts are even more hardened and do not believed this nor regard themselves as false prophets, but we knew & have seen their "bad fruits" that they are. Thats how satan who is a master of deception can so subtly deceived them. Therefore,the sooner you leave CC and come out of them to be set free, the better.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 2, 2011 11:58 AM

Anonymous said...

Even cults preaches in Jesus name, even a gay pastor preaches in Jesus name.The Lord warned us to know these people & the churches "BY THEIR FRUITS". Thus, God had today exposes that AOG are not from Him.
...............................
In 2nd Corinthians Paul expressed the fear of " preaching another jesus.."In my opinion many AOG Ministers are either fake or not called. Most of them have hidden issues with themselves or with other ministers and oftentimes with their own wife's.

Let me say what I saw and heard from my ex pastor who was trained with the AOG- it was a real eye opener for our family. He was plainly anti- Malay and Indian.But that is none of of our business.I married outside my race.But the way he spreads it to the church youth who are just starting off in life. is just so distressing.

Those born here have to face the reality.Everywhere we go to a Goverment Department it says- "Gunakan Bahasa Malaysia".We live under the Malaysian flag. But this AOG man will talk as though we are living under the US flag.

How long can we keep our children within the 4 corners of our church? We were not surprised when 1 of the College ladies from our church was arrested for prostitution.WE pass no Judgment-we took her and protected her until she was better.But that AOG idiot would just not give up-he preaches against sin as though he is above it and has conquered it!!!For the College girls safety- we moved to another church and took her together with us.

But the news soon spread like wildfire in the church.And everyone knows that it was the pastor who spread it.

The AOG pastors are diseased and mostly do not have the fear or the love of God preach.

JOB'S DAUGHTER

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 2, 2011 5:02 PM

Anonymous said...

My son, if you receive my words and treasure the new CCC, opening your purse to Tithes, Offerings, Seed Offering, Pledges, Sacrificial Offerings,Fools Offerings and Suicidal Offerings turning your ear to my preaching, inclining your heart to the CC Constitution knowing how mighty it is; Yes, if you call to me, and to come under a AOG delusion, closing your ears; If you are always giving, without asking questions: Then will you understand the blessing of my gods; the knowledge of god you will find; For the lord is in need of more money, from his mouth come requests for more offerings.
-- Proverbs 2:1-6

Thus you may walk in the way of deceived men, and keep to the paths of the " Obey now and ask why later". For the dumb will dwell in the pews of CC, the fleeced will remain in it; But those who ask questions will be booted out, the smart will be rooted out of it.
-- Proverbs 2:20-22 (CC's Year End Edition 2011)

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 2, 2011 5:34 PM

Anonymous said...

DEDICATED TO THE PRESENT CC LEADERSHIP.

Look at me! Look at me! Here in the air!
Up on the tightrope - that's me - up there!
Balancing shakily, certain to fall
I wish that I wasn't up here at all.


Perched so precarious, danglingyet,

Nothing below me, no - no safety net,

One side is darkness, the other is light

I'm walking the wire, and nothing feels right.

My balance is failing, I know that I'll lose,

I must decide on a side - I must choose,

One side is death and the other is life

I've made no decision - I'm walking the knife.


What an act! I'm a star! People watching me shake,

As I head for the end with each step that I take,

Shall I die? Shall I live? And does anyone care?

The tightrope goes on and I hang in the air.

Anonymous said...

But the news soon spread like wildfire in the church.And everyone knows that it was the pastor who spread it.
.................................
Of course,they are the culprits- and sly too.They will also use others to spread their tales.Anyone can stand up and preach- like the Toastmasters. And the AOG Rev. sermon-mostly is strange fire upon the altar. They have not read the Levitical laws- "Thou shalt not go about as a talebearer in the land."

Sometimes they just run others down using the pulpit- since they are the dominant power figures in the church.And the weakling who cannot stand up to this religious devils in church just have to suffer in silence.(Anyway,what can you so??")

What happened at CC is nothing now.SP is bulldozing his way through and all the other AOG Rev.Quacks are sitting in the
sidelines watching the show.They will not do anything.They will only come to life when the Board is discussing their Christmas bonus or an increase in their salary or their so-called Sabbatical leave.

My Ex-pastor is a saintly man ( Only on Sundays and Fridays)--but those of us who had the misfortune of being in his fellowship came to know that he is a AOG whoremonger and incurable!!!This minister fell,that bro. fell, that sister is suicidal...marital problems"

We are now in fellowship in another church - a small church and the atmosphere is so different- no money appeals at all- and of course- no whoremongering!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 12:17 PM

Anonymous said...

But the news soon spread like wildfire in the church.And everyone knows that it was the pastor who spread it.
............................

A COMMENT
OF COURSE THE IDIOT SPREAD IT. BUT IF IT WAS HIS OWN DAUGHTER-THEN ITS A DIFFERENT STORY. COLLECT A SPECIAL OFFERING AND SEND HERE TO THE US "FOR FURTHER STUDIES". THEY ARE EXPERTS AT FLEECING THE DUMB SHEEP.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 12:21 PM

Anonymous said...

"Obey now and ask why later".
\................................
Yeah, our family was at the service when RY preached this message. Noah never asked God why and so we should be having the same attitude in supporting CCC. The appeal sacrificial giving is so predominant in todays pulpits. What a load of AOG Crap. Who has demonstrated sacrificial giving for us? Its all talk. Just look at RY- can upgrade his car to a new CV.WE sitting in the pews have been giving all these years, go for the cheapest family holidays, but these leaders can go overseas and live in fancy homes.Its plain hypocritical.They have been pulling the wool over the congregation eyes.

RY and SK- CCC vision is not from God. The proof is - 9 Banks have rejected CC application for loans. Isn't the message clear enough/ Dont shame Jesus our Lord.In His lifetime he never borrowed money from anyone.

RY is now a only a Titled religious devil from the AOG.His endless money appeal from the pulpit,using Bible stories is proof of it. This is the same devil who escorted Liza out from the auditorium.How heroic!!! Sir..WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE HUMILIATED THIS WAY IN ANOTHER CHURCH???

CC leadership is disgraceful. No wonder Rev. Jerry Chow made his exit quietly!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 1:10 PM

Anonymous said...

Papal church in history and Pentecostal churches in modern times

In his book “A Study in Church History” by Gene Taylor, page 18 mentions “The people who read the New Testament soon realized that the papal church was far from the New Testament ideal.” – this was the period during which the Bible was being translated into all the European languages.

People of that day took the trouble to study the NT seriously and discovered what a church should be in its doctrines, practices and worship according to the NT. Today however, even with so many Bible versions available, church-goers simply (a) accept what their pastors preach from the pulpit WITHOUT taking the trouble to double-check whether it follows the NT teachings and practices and (b) without questioning them.

No wonder so many church-goers of Pentecostal churches and others are taken for a ride until their pockets are drained out. But far more important than money, they are taken a ride to damnation. In Matt 28:20 Jesus said to his disciples: “Teach them to obey everything that I have commanded you.”

Tithing and other Pentecostal doctrines are NOT commanded by Jesus and the apostles under the new covenant. Wake up from your spiritual slumber.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 4:15 PM

Anonymous said...

To Anony NOv 1st. 4.50pm... You said you realy felt sorry & sad for SK.
Well, by all means do feel sorry or sad for someone who is worthy of your sympathy. But do you feel sorry & sad for someone like SK who is full of pride and arrogance & thinks he had doned nothing wrong and felt no reason why he should be needing your sympathy of feeling sorry or sad for him?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 5:06 PM

Anonymous said...

Tithing and other Pentecostal doctrines are NOT commanded by Jesus and the apostles under the new covenant. Wake up from your spiritual slumber.

...................................
God bless the person who wrote the above!!!So why are the AOG Pastors still preaching on this? The answer is abvious -lah Soh Chai!!! These are the Wan Sek Pastors.Its their ricebowl.Of course,they cant ask the church citing their ricebowl; So they look for verses to support their financial needs but there is nothing there in the NT.Because neither Jesus or Paul or Peter or any of the NT Apostles ever taught tithing- THIS IS AN UNDISPUTED FACT.But the religious devils[ borrowed this description from another blogger] from the AOG did it.And mind you, some of them are real money minded religious devils. But there are many VERSES in the O.T mentioning tithing.($$$)

So the AOG Rev's simply teach that these verses are still applicable to the modern day Christian.Since they know that many in the church are working people and they have no time to study the Bible for themselves- the Pastors just shifted this tithe doctrine to the NT and started teaching that all Christians must pay 10% of their income to church!!. Thats how they earn their bread and butter- and get their salary.

Most of them in big churches drive better cars, eat better food and can send their children overseas for an expensive education.( And also upgrade to a CRV??)Even the small church pastor dreams of a mega building these days.

The whole thing is a deception.When God moves in a persons heart, the person will give. There is no need for asking forever Seedfaith, Cornerstone Gift, Buy a Brick,Pledges,Pastors Gift,Christmas Offering. This is what the NT warned us about- going astray after filthy lucre. And many of the AOG Ministers come under this category.

ICHABOD- FOR THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED FROM CC.

OBEY NOW AND ASK WHY LATER?? CHEH!!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 5:18 PM

Anonymous said...

I WANT NOBODY BUT YOU

The intenationally popular song sung by The Wonder Girs, written by Park Jin Young and Rhee Woo Seok, so fittingly describes the situation in cc.

"You know I love you baby,
and it will never change,
I want nobody, but you,
I want nobody but you,
Nan sarmuen sirheo niga animyeon sirheo,
I want nobody, nobody, nobody..."

Note: the rogue priest actually DO NOT want us
NUT ONLY our money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY !

MILIOONS AND MILLIONS AND HILLIONS !

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS !

We arr all SUCKERED, BABY !

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 3, 2011 6:36 PM

Anonymous said...

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT FALSE TEACHERS

Let us all see what God through His Holy Bible says about FALSE TEACHERS and FALSE TEACHINGS:

MATTHEW 7:25
Beware of false propehets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

2 JOHN 4:2
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

ROMANS 16:27-28
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught, avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own appetities, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

JOHN 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your fahter's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. when he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

LUKE 22:57
"And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right"

ISIAH 3:9
For the look on their faces bears witness against them; they proclaim their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. woe to them ! for they have brought evil unto themselves.

There are so many other Bible verses about false teachers and false teachings that God repeatedly warned we his children against, towards the end time.

So let us open our spiritual eyes and ears to test the spirits of this rogue priest and his unholy assistants, sipporting his regime in cc.

Stop being deceived by this evil priest destroying our beloved chruch from within. Run through the long list of ungodly acts agsinst our church including allegedly indulging in immoral acts, "importing" local and foreign guests speakers to belittle and humiliate members in their speeches, wasting money on useless church projects, disbanning the homelife groups, sacking 400 plus members, removing certain home life leaders, "chopping off" certain SCG teachers, terminating the whole church choir, sacking his oen trusted long serving deacon, bullying members during EGM and AGMs, not agreeing to the proper practice of truth, transparency, and godly governance in cc, etc, etc, etc.

Ask ourselves : Are these acts of a godly God fearing leader ? Can they come form someone claiming to be "annointed" by God ? Or do they resemble acts of someone following the Devil ? A Satanic worshipper ?

Please refer earlier blog comments.

The building of ccc cannot be in God's will, otherwise it would not be a big flop. God will not allow a building complex designed by a Freemason, "envisioned" by a self serving proud dictatorial money loving leader, who do not seem to practise basic Christian love for others. A construction that faces countless problems... all these signs somehow indicate things are not right at all.

Watch out.

Be on guard against lies from satanic liars, backed by the father of liaes - Lucifer/Satan/ Devil.

Lastly, turn Off The Tap - TOTT.
Do not donate our money to ccc fund. Give our money to other worthy charity and Christian churches we see fit.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 10:01 AM

Anonymous said...

"Obey now and ask why later".
.................................

Psychologists are now telling us that the sins that we shout loudest against are the very things that trouble our own souls.

RY- you are backslidden.For a man who has gone astray after filthy lucre you should be more circumspect in your speech. Take a test for yourself. Stop asking for money for 4 weeks from the pulpit.Can you do it??You can't- lah Mr.Reverend-because you are backslidden. It will be relief for us if you dont try to con us again..

Your talk about sacrificial giving. We fell for your crap for years.Did you practice what you preached? Or was it just another sermon for you?? Downgrade your car to a simpler one. Show us an example. My family car is only a Proton Aeroback and it is 9 years old.

We as a family are beginning to get the feeling that we have been listening to a bunch of phonies and conmen inside the church!! Where is your self respect? Is there no other way to make a living than to fleece the sheep to the maximum??
Its so shameful to say the least!!Is the Gospel of Jesus all about asking money again and again??


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 1:29 PM

Anonymous said...

THE FOLLOWING VERSE IS FOR SP AND THE ASSOCIATE PASTORS

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires."

Our utter contempt for you all. From a worshipping church - you have turned it into a den of shameless thieves and robbers.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 1:31 PM

Anonymous said...

There is something amiss with RY. He is nervous these days and sounds rather apologetic when preaching. They claim they never read this blog??? What a liar!!! The face says it all RY. You are a gifted liar.I am not surprised. The way you confidently and heroicly escorted Liza out of the church and showed her the doors spoke volumes to our family.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 1:34 PM

Anonymous said...

Knowing SK's style, he will probably say something like this "This is the last Sunday of the month. The church gives you an opportunity to fulfill your pledges.
..................................
HE SAID WHAT????HAHHAHAA....HOHOOHHOO...HEHHEE.....HEHEHEE...HEHEE...HEHEHEEE.......

THE JOKERS NEVER GIVE UP - DO THEY??


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 1:42 PM

Anonymous said...

PO and RY2 merrily thanked the sheep (in cheras) in appreciation for the generous Christmas gifts! i was really dumbfounded...
...................................
so!!!!! this is where the missions offering really landed... in their Pastors pockets!!!!


Ha...Ha... Hooo. ....Hooooo

well brother... it snot too late to learn..!!!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 3:06 PM

Anonymous said...

THE GOLDEN RULE AXED BY SATANIC PRIEST

The golden rule "Do unto others what you want others to do nto you" most apparently does NOT penetrate the thick skull of the satanic priest, who continues indulging himself, his family members and his boneless followers with a hedonistic and materialistic life styles - diametrically opposite of what he so repeatedly appeal to congregation members to grab the (implicitly sugar coatedly vocalised God given) opportunity participate "sacrifially" with "suggestions" of skipping meals, foregoing holiday trips, taking up bank loans, offering faith pledges, offering sacrificial donations, and any other "schemes" their crafty wicked minds can conjure and think up !

To add insult to injury, they openly indulge in upper class lifestyles, so alien and distantly remote chance of materilising to most of us who can only dream of enjoying such possibility ! And then they hit out accusing us of being jealous of their God given wealth ! Esp their expensive properties, fancy cars, overseas trips, fat pays, perks, class suits/dresses, fine dining, private viewings, branded shopping, etc.

What about you, you hypocrites, cheats, conmen and fraudsters ?

Why are YOU unholy rogue leaders not sacrificing for ccc ?

You do NOT practise what uyou preach !

We are NOT idots. We know all your tricks. Thank God for CT and CT2.

Let there be light, darkness has to flee. Amen.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 3:14 PM

Anonymous said...

Do not donate our money to ccc fund. Give our money to other worthy charity and Christian churches we see fit.

.........................
COMMENT ON THE ABOVE IS SO TRUE. THER ARE SO MANY NEEDS OUT THERE THAT REALLY NEED OUR HELP.INSTEAD SOME MADMEN ARE SPENDING SO MUCH $$ TO PUT UP A MEGA SIZED BUILDING. LETS STAND TOGETHER ON THIS ISSUE AND DO NOT CONTRIBUTE ANY MORE OF OUR HARD EARNED $$$$!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH@!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 3:28 PM

Anonymous said...

We as a family are beginning to get the feeling that we have been listening to a bunch of phonies and conmen inside the church..
.................................
It is most saddening to read the above comments. SP and Gang do not seems to be aware that frustration has descended on the minds of these once respectful faithfuls.I tend to believe that the modern church has really no mandate from God for its existence.Take for example- there are so many foreigners in Malaysia who are abused in this country and who really do not know what it is to be loved.But the so- called church can spend so much money on a building!! As my former pastor put it- after all its our money so we dont have to listen to others!! Correctly stated.Maybe thats why just the scraps goes to the missions and the rest goes to get more property for the church and spend more money on Christmas Celebrations & Pastors day!!!

I SAY - TOTT IS WORKING. LETS SHOW THESE BACKSLIDDEN AOG LEADERS THAT WE WONT MEEKLY BE LED TO THE SLAUGHTER.ITS ABUSIVE CONDUCT ON THE PART OF THESE SO CALLED REVERENDS.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 4:18 PM

Anonymous said...

O and RY2 merrily thanked the sheep (in cheras) in appreciation for the generous Christmas gifts! i was really dumbfounded...
................................

OUR OFFICE STAFF AGAIN HAD A GOOD LAUGH READING THE ABOVE DISAPPOINTMENT. THIS TIME THERE WAS NO FEAR AS THE SUPERVISOR WAS NOT AROUND.LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ANOTHER CON JOB BY CC.

THEY SAY ITS MISSION OFFERING AND YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD GO TO SUDAN???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........HEE.HHEEEEEEEEE...HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO
FROM ALL OF HERE !!!! FINALLY THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 4:34 PM

Look to God for strength & encouragement said...

It really saddens me to read and hear that so many are hurting. Some are even disillusioned. Worst still, some have even left the church.

When will you APs & BOD wake up? The signs and messages are so clear. Can you pay the price that because of what you preach and do cause these innocent sheep to go astray? The punishments that await you would be great.

To all hurting members of cc, do not look to men, for men are merely mortal beings. Look instead to the Lord.

"But as for me, I would seek God,
And I would place my cause before God." Job 5:8 (NASB)

Posted by Look to God for strength & encouragement to Calvary Today 2 at November 4, 2011 8:37 PM

Anonymous said...

WHAT ABOUT YOU - PART 2

What about you, PeeGee1, PeeGee2, PO,TO, SK, RY, DS and others ? Are you giving sacrificially to cc and ccc fund ? Have you sold or pledged your porperties ? Have you taken up bank loans for this cause you preached about ? Have you sacrificed by skipping your meals to donate your money to cc and ccc ? Have you foregone your holiday trips ? Have you sold your cars to give to the church ? Have you agreed to pay cuts ? Have you sacrificed your fat bonuses for God and church ? Have you sacrificed your perks ?

Or do you only NATO (Talk Only No action) ? Hypocrites, conmen, fraudsters and liars are you ?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 7:36 AM

Anonymous said...

GREAT QUOTES ABOUT LIES !

Be ready to have a GOOD LAUGH ! . LAUGHTER is good for your health !

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to gets its pants on.
WINSTON CHURCHILL
Note: The number of lies generated by the rogue leader and his gang can circumvent the whole world millions of times.

It is better to take what does not belong to you than to let it lie around neglected.
MARK TWAIN
Note: Perhaps PeeGees think that way about cc money lying around "neglected" ?

The main differrence between a cat and a lie is that a cat only has nine lives.
MARK TWAIN

Half a truth is often a great lie.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Note: we cannot help thinking Benjamin must be most familiar with the constantly deceitful habits of master of liars, PeeGee1, who specialises in diching out half truths.


The most common lie is that which one lies to himself; lying to others is relatively an exception.
FRIEDRICH NIETZCHE

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.
JOHN F KENnEDY
Note: Wow ! Kennedy seems to know PeeGee1's main weakness and bad habit !. The rogue priest must be bluffing himself, stuffing himself full with lies every waking hour, to be a born liar to himself and others.

A lie cannot live.
MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR
Notet: The lies spewing from the mouths of these satanic priests have murdered the spritual growth of cc and the future ccc, already bringing a schism among the congregation, splitting our unity in half.

Funny, how come these great men seem to understang the satanic priest so well ?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 8:15 AM

Anonymous said...

I read this news and was shocked! Will this happen to Calavary Church in days to come ?

"Some members of a bankrupt Orange County, Calif. megachurch are expressing outrage after fielding an email request for congregants to deliver food to waiting limos so that it can ferried to the founder's sick wife. The appeal comes weeks after a lawsuit charged that the founder of the Crystal Cathedral house of worship, Rev. Robert Schuller, and his family had been paying themselves lavish salaries and other benefits while the church was in financial straits.

"They've completely depleted the church's funds," one member, Bob Canfield, told the Orange County Register. "But they have shown that they have absolutely no remorse for what they've done. They're still being chauffeured around in limos. We, the congregants, have nothing."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/bankrupt-church-wants-donations-pastor-sick-wife-ferried-182015520.html

The worst is yet to befall on CC and CCC! The Prophecy will come to pass !


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 10:59 AM

Anonymous said...

LAMENTATIONS
How deserted lies the city,once so full of people! How like a widow is she,who once was great among the nations!She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
...................................

CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCE.

I would like to share an experience.Briefly stated my friend-ex- beauty queen got married.She was mid 20's and and a smart professional. Then married the guy of her dreams- another professional but rather a humble man who dislikes the limelight. All of us in Church were so happy for them and the whole church turned up for the wedding.What a glorious day. Several even came from overseas.Then one season- 10 years into the marriage she was promoted to a very senior post.She was ambitious and hard working.She prospered.
Very soon the cracks began to appear in the marriage.Late night meetings,out of town presentations,(whatever it was).Then there were loud shoutings in their home.One day the quarrel was so bad - the police had to be called in at 2a.m.There are many Christians in the neighbourhood who go to the same church. Then husband was increasingly absent from home too. To everyone's shock-The divorce papers were filed soon and the whole family collapsed.Many of us who grew up in church were so grieved at the state of affairs.What happened??
The man died in car accident the following year.Drunk driving- car rammed into tree.( Accident or deliberate?)Now this former beauty queen looks haggard and depressed all the time.Both her teenage sons treat her with so much contempt.If you see the eldest son screaming at her- you would immedaitely bolt the scene!!

I personally think that big money is not for everyone- it has a way of bringing out our vices.She got what she wanted- but at what cost?

SP was and still is a great preacher. But power and money has gone into his head and the glory has departed.His foolishness is evident before the congregation.He has prostituted his giftings in exchange for CCC.The mega church has nothing to do with Gods purposes.But the new CCC SP has brought CC into slavery to mindless debt.

And the rest are just tag-along cases for their bread and butter.They are not preaching God's Word but are defensive and are preaching their own gospel. I could not believe my ears during one service when RY stated-" Give to CCC and God will prosper you!!!"

Is that so Mr. Backslidden Devil??
Get down from the pulpit and think about doing something else for your bread.Ministry is not all about cleverly worded sermons, and showing a carrot to the sheep & donkeys its about obeying God's Voice.[per chance if you did not know]

THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 12:27 PM

Anonymous said...

What "God given wealth" they are talking about? They took opportunities to enrich themselves by granting for themselves with high salaries, fat bonuses, perks & benefits from church members' funds and they dare called it "god given wealth". You fraudsters are nothing but a den of thieves, proffesional beggars who have stolen from church members money given to God for his good purposes. YOU HAVE STOLEN FROM GOD.
No matter how you go justifying yourselves with excuses, it doesn't changed the fact that you all are actually stealing. Just how are you to answer God?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 12:58 PM

Anonymous said...

What is left of CC is just a skeleton now.The glory and the reverence is foundno ote there. The Ministers preach for hire and continue to hoodwink the sheep. This lat crap about sacrificialving is just another way of cutting the throat of the sheep.

Such s the demeanor of most AOG ministers. Whatever they say goes.Its a nice job really. Where elase in the world can you get a job just standiong up to talkand claim that you are God's representative??

The whole AOG system sucks!!!


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 1:16 PM

Anonymous said...

I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR PEOPLE WHO DO THE RIGHT THINGS IN THE WRONG WAY. REV. ONG LEANG[for whatever reason deviated from his preaching during the bricklaying ceremony]
............................
Of course, this has reference to the TTG bloggers.This old religious serpent has been visitng this blog on the quiet and it has also affected his reputation.

Christians want tranparency and accountability from their leaders. So dear AOG Reverends- dont try to argue you way out of it.

Whata the matter ReV??- you want the sheep to submit to your authority and get upset when they ask you questions?? Why? And dear Sir- who are you submitted to? To God Alone??

AN OLD FRY.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 1:35 PM

Anonymous said...

"They've completely depleted the church's funds," one member, Bob Canfield, told the Orange County Register. "But they have shown that they have absolutely no remorse for what they've done. They're still being chauffeured around in limos. We, the congregants, have nothing."


...................................

WE HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME."THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO REMORSE..." MY PASTOR HAS SAID NASTY THINGS ABOUT OTHERS BUT UNTIL TODAY HE HAS SHOWN NO REMORSE. THEY BELIEVE THAT THEIR REV. TITLE IN FRONT OF THEIR NAME SHIELDS THEM FOR WHATEVER WRONG THEY HAD DONE.THESE ARE THE SATANS THAT SCRIPTURES WARNED US ABOUT.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 2:14 PM

Anonymous said...

SK- what a turn of events. In your seasoned years you should be reaping the fruits of your labours- instead your name has been cast into the dumps because of this CCC Project.Many now see you just as a spineless weakling eching the hidden voice of SP.What a shem. Kesian juga. Curtains down.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 2:26 PM

Anonymous said...

Is CC a gold mine? Looks so.

CCC is in financial dire straits and yet PG and his cohorts looks calm. These people have bent so low, they are literally begging for money. Yet some APs and staff never it so good.

PG loves Volvos. Is this his second or third Volvo?

RY loves Honda and now drives a CRV.

PO loves Japanese and has a Mitsubishi Lancer.

PG Junior (Jim) loves Korean, having a KIA suv.

It's a season for new vehicles for those in CC.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 5, 2011 7:19 PM

Anonymous said...

Lady Pastor CL was heaping praises in describing the construction of CCC in the Calvary News magazine. She said "once the 2nd mega truss was lifted, there was such a wonderful spirit of joy & unspoken acknowledgedment of the goodness & faithfullness of God at the CCC site." Is that so CL? A question for you. Do you honestly think that God would approved His house of worship to look and shaped like an Egyptian's Pharoah's head, similar to a "head of a cobra snake"? which is evil & satanic in nature. This freemason architect must have subtly deceived you all with this design indicating it to look like a futuristic space ship. A futuristic space ship with a satanic freemason logo on it!!!.
You think a God who is Holy would compromised with something evil?

CCC is simply not God's vision as you all claimed. If you have truly loved God and have pledged to faithfully serve Him with FEAR, but still insisted that CCC is His call & vision, then something is very, very wrong with you and your fellow pastors too, and you need to search your heart before the awesome Almighty God.

May I correct you that the Kingdom of God is not about putting up buildings, but the Kingdom of God is all about building & changing lives to Christ.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 6, 2011 10:15 AM

Anonymous said...

Whata the matter ReV??- you want the sheep to submit to your authority and get upset when they ask you questions?? Why? And dear Sir- who are you submitted to? To God Alone??
.................................
I ONCE ASKED MY REV.PASTOR WHO HE IS SUBMITTED TO AND HE LOOKED AT ME WITH SUCH A LOOK OF CONTEMPT!!!!!

I GUESS THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION.I AM ATTENDING ANOTHER CHURCH NOW WHERE THERE A BOARD OF ELDERS.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 6, 2011 1:46 PM

Anonymous said...

This is what I read in a forum in Spore regarding a scandal involving Rev. Choo Yonggi

Quote:

Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul

A television documentary has accused the pastor at the largest Christian Church in South Korea and his family of using the Church for personal gain and to fund a lavish lifestyle that includes ownership of multi-million dollar homes in the US.

According to the Producer’s Note, broadcast Sep 20 by the Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation, Reverend Cho Yong-gi and his family look upon the Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul "as their own private possession and not as a tool to help the less fortunate."

All the organizations associated with the Church and cash donated to them are under the control of Reverend Cho and his family members, according to the program.

It accused his wife of using the money to buy around US$20 million worth of property in the US, thereby violating foreign exchange laws.

The program also claimed Reverend Cho’s wife also sold a building built from collection money to Hansei University of which she is the president.

After the program was aired, many viewers denounced Reverend Cho and his family.

“With corrupt pastors such as this its little wonder many people are quitting the Church,” said Shim Jae-yeol who professed to not being religious.

Kim Hee-sun said action needed to be taken against such people who brazenly take advantage of others.

In a statement today Reverend Cho, who established the Church in 1958, denied the allegations, calling them defamatory and completely without foundation.

Source: ucanews.com
http://www.cathnewsindia.com/2011/09...ches%E2%80%99/

Unquote.

This guy is now under investigation but the story sounds familiar enough to what is happening in CC – hehehe. This was where PG learned his tricks. Good thing it was nipped in its early stages.

Same old tricks used by these international religious cartels to con their congregations.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 6, 2011 7:46 PM

Anonymous said...

Hi Folks and liberated readers of this blog, still remember i wrote about the collection of Christmas love offerings during the so-called 2nd mission offerings for Nov and Dec last year? Yesterday the same thing was repeated in cheras conducted by PO and RY2. Notice how sly the video was prepared? i remember how badly treated outreach workers were like the sister in KL who had to sleep in the makeshift office while SP and his 'ask-no-question and yes sir-my boss-your word is my command' ass. pastors draw fat fat pay for who knows how much work they really do. And cleverly, the video showed two outreach families/workers showing their appreciation. We don't mind and really hope such love offerings going to those who really deserve them like those struggling in poor, remote areas. As the video was being played i notice RY2 grinning from ear to ear! perhaps thinking...'aha all these dumb sheep will surely be touched....wonder what's my cut this year!!' So disgusting! Dear SP and your gang, can you honestly tell us that you and your gang won't touch a sen of this Christmas love offerings? Why? Becos YOU ALL DEFINITELY DON'T DESERVE IT AFTER THE LIES AND FINANCIAL MESS YOU HAVE GOT CC INTO!!! If this had happened in the private sector you all would probably had been sacked! instead of bro. Lum, the 400 and others. Anyway CC would had been better off without you all.

Btw did you also notice how VERY PANDAI BODEK SP the ass. pastors are especially these couple of months?...maybe something to do with what bonus and portfolios SP will decide for them. Some examples...listen to what the ass. pastors said...TO at SP birthday do in DH, PO and DS on SP overseas missionary greatness in Korea recently...

Yesterday after the service i overheard comments from some young people from CW who joined the adult congregation. "Don't know what pastor(SP) is talking about...Are you with me?...If you are breathing say amen...so boring...want to sleep...". Senior teacher Michael Chang asked them stay back and gave them a lecture on ethique like cannot yawn, sleep etc... All ok. But as a senior teacher Michael Chang (incidently had been given award for long service by CC..Ref.Calvary News Jan/Feb 2011), don't you think you should ask the young people first why they felt so restless before your lecture/advice? Or are you like SP and the gang...i m always right you are wrong...just follow...no questions asked...fullstop! i wonder if you being such a senior teacher dare to analyse SP's sermon yesterday and give him some pointers. Let me give you some.

i) the sermon was all over the place...any good teacher/speaker can tell you that you need a focus
ii)"Don't know what pastor(SP) is talking about...Are you with me?...If you are breathing say amen...so boring...want to sleep...if you are bored, the spaeker will be bored...if you sleepy, you put the speaker to sleep...Come on! wake me up!". It was so pathetic to say the least to hear SP begging for attention just like he and the ass. pastors begging for $$$ (...get the tapes...read SP means buy his tapes/sermons so he can get more $$$...Shame on you SP!). I have given motivational training and talks to different audiences sometimes audiences of hundreds. Not once have i used any of the above pathetic phrases to draw their attention. Any good speaker will get feedback to continually improve. You expect SP to do this? Fat hopes!! If you dare tell him you be sacked perhaps. In my years at CC i can only remember one single sermon SP didn't repeat the above cliches.
iii)Times up...the 2nd truth next time. SP you are the senior pastor of CC with so many many years of preaching AND YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAN/ORGANISE A PROPER SERMON!!! timewise.

Anyway SP you are very very clever. Yesterday you reminded the sheep not to judge just like you did on 18/09/2011.



ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 12:34 PM

Anonymous said...

Further to Anonymous Nov. 7, PG has a complex problem when he begs for attention. He thinks he can boss others around him. True, his yes-men. Once upon a time when he says such lowly remarks, he can still get some attention. But he has not moved with the times. Today very few take his remarks to heart.

Yesterday, he said "if you are still breathing, say an amen." This clearly shows he has no respect for the congregation. Simply translated it means if you don't say amens during my message shows you are dead. Such crude remarks.

Another remark he often makes is "The service is not over yet. The best part of my message is to come." to keep the people back when he is soooo long winded and much over the scheduled time to end. I had a few unpleasant encounters with my spouse when I made comments over his arrogant behaviour. I always subscribe to the principle that if you do not respect another person's time, you do not have any respect for him.

Another common attitude from rogue superiors is 'if you do not respect me, you must respect my position'. Outside the four walls, these rogues are a forgotten lot. Respect is earned, not demanded. Sadly these two common basic principles for good personal relationship is not in PG. He is always 'me this and that....' not 'you ....


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 3:12 PM

Anonymous said...

Ah Beng Returns has left a new comment on your post "Calvary Enters JV with Property Developer":

In response to ANOTHER SMALL FRY's comment at 12.34pm on 7th Nov 2011 .............

"Do NOT", I repeat, "Do NOT" be conned again & again by PG & his bunch of "yesmen/women" APs/BOD anymore. Enough is Enough!!!

Remember how PG, "quietly", moved RM 1.9m, over more than 5 years (from Sep 2002 to Dec 2007), from CC's coffers to his personal ministry (CIM). Even when God exposed this greedy CBT act of PG's, he showed no remorse & he still fought to hang on to the ill-gotten gains, by wasting more CC $$$ on that expensive criminal lawyer, forensic accountants & US$ 10,000 to fly Dr Guynes over to "convince" everyone that PG is right.

Remember the episode of the $$$ meant for the Indonesian Earthquake victims that ended up in PG's personal ministry (CIM) & how CC's Treasurer had answered that "by the time they wanted to send the $$$ over, the other side said that they DON'T need the $$$ anymore". Can you believe that?

Then there was this other story of PG's BAD stewardship & that story of PG's/BOD's poor management of CC's $$$ & "so on" & "so on" which you can read in the earlier Calvary Today postings. As they said, the rest is history.......

Here's another piece of history that not many within CC (including those who has since left by force or by choice) knows about............

Once upon a time, a church worker (CW) was hauled up before PG & grilled by PG on why the CW should be getting some $$$ in an envelope marked for the CW via the offering bag. Finally, the CW being exasperated & out of his wits, just told PG that he (i.e. PG) can keep the $$$ as he (i.e. the CW) doesn't want it - guess where the $$$ meant for the CW went? Your guess is as good as mine.

The moral of the story? If you (who are still within CC) really want to bless the individual church worker(s) (whether within CC or outside), it would be better that you give it DIRECTLY to that individual CW(s) & NOT try to give it via CC as it would be a case of "Harap Pagar, Pagar Makan Padi".

Posted by Ah Beng Returns to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 5:45 PM

Anonymous said...

HO ! HO ! HO ! CONNED AGAIN ?

Christmas seems to come very early to Kuala Lumpur this year. It is now only early November, the first weekend. Yet cc in today's Sunday service is already passing teh bag around for Christmas love offerings to "outreach pastors".

After reading the various blogs about this matter last year, we have to confess that we are troubled by the possibility of being conned again by the cc under the rogue leader's crafty "packaging and marketing" via a video clip showing thank you letters and photographs of certain outreach pastors.

We gave out of goodwill and sincere urge to help the less fortunate pastors in the country, but now somehow we feel suckered ... again. We wondered whether others now feel the same doubts about whether the money collected will reach these genuinely needy pastors and their families. Or will the money be mysteriously diverted by some unscrupulous persons into their own pockets ? We do not favour no accountability and no transpartency in the present adminsitration by the rogue leader, BOD and others involved. It is not teh money but more the principles involved. Being cheated by someone you used to trust hurts so much.

We shall revert to TOTT, until these changes happen. We recommend the rest follow suit, in the name of justice, truth and Christianity.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 8:11 PM

Anonymous said...

HATING, NOT LOVING, BROTHERS AND SISTERS

Brothers and sisters in Christ, we are taught by GOD that "LOVE IS THE GREATEST" (NRSV 1 CORINTHIANS 13:4-8, 13).

We love because he first loved us. those who say, "I love God", and hate his brothers nad sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother and sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen. The commandment that we have from him is this: Those who love god must first love their brothers and sisters also.
(NRSV 1 JOHN 4:19-21)

Yet during today's sunday service, the rogue priest abused the sanctity of the pulpit in church to hit out at his fellow Christians brothers and sisters, in no uncertain terms hitting out at these poor defenceless persons as being in accociation with "antiChrist" !

God calls such persons "liars" !
He is definitely a liar who does not practise what he preaches. what's the point of having a central church theme about loving your neighbour, when you cannot show love to these people who have regularly attending your church, numerous among them for so many years, esp the sacked 400 plus ?

Those who are seated together with you, Asspee, are they not your neighbours ? Yet you apparently hate them calling them names in public ... whereas those pastors who lived in USA, Singapore, Korea, etc are buddies you love to invite as guest speakers ! Are you not branded a liar by God ?

Best part, you demand respect (and begging for money) from the sheep, yes ?


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 8:41 PM

Anonymous said...

Whatever credibility SK has is eroding. He is like Aesop's fables, the boy who cried wolf.

Earlier when begging for RM6 mil, he spoke about a dying person giving RM 6 mil to him for CCC.

Then at the Cornerstone event at Bukit Jalil, he said the church needs RM 12 mil. by Deccember.

On both occasions, probably what came in is a pittance! Then he announced that the church can manage and need not draw-down the bank loan. After all the tension he created, this is an anti-climax. If the church has the money, stop these nonsense!

SK will cry wolf, wolf when under stress.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 7, 2011 8:54 PM

Anonymous said...

On Sunday, CC made a collection for outreach pastors and less fortunate pastors in the country. SK clearly said so.

Even though the credibility of PG., APs and deacons is at a all-time low, my spouse and I gave out of goodwill and sincerity. Let's pray that every sen that is collected will be used to bless the outreach pastors and less fortunate pastors and the church will not betray our trust this occasion.

In past years, a deacon will go on stage to announce the collection for the pastors in CC. Hope there will be none this year as they are already in a comfort zone. If they do, we will certainly TOTT without doubt.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 12:24 AM

Anonymous said...

To Annoy, Nov.8 12.24am. What! you still would give inspite of knowing very well there are no accountability of accounts & these people are provened to be untrusted leaders. They are in dire need of money for CCC & you would not know if your money actually goes to these outreach pastors. I have strong suspicion that even they give, they would not give all, but keep some behind for themselves. The best way you can be sure your money goes to them, is to hand to them personally & not put them in the collection bag.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 8:19 AM

Anonymous said...

ANOTHER "CUCI MATA" FOR THE DUMP SHEEP

"As the video was being played i notice RY2 grinning from ear to ear! perhaps thinking...'aha all these dumb sheep will surely be touched..."

................................
These Quacks are trying to deflect attention from themselves by suddenly being so concerned for poor pastors. This concern was never a hallmark of CC.I believe the spirit of deceiving other is on them.Of course this time around the $$$ will go to the poor pastors. But this is just a red herring to diver attention from themselves.RY and SK- TOP MARKS FOR THIS PATHETIC DRAMA!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 11:12 AM

Anonymous said...

On Sunday, CC made a collection for outreach pastors and less fortunate pastors in the country. SK clearly said so.

...............................
DO NOT BELIBVE THIS UNLESS THEY PUT UP PON THE NOTICE BOARD HOW MUCH $$$ HAD BEEN COLLECTED AND TO WHICH PASTOR EXACTLY THE MONEY WENT.I WILL NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING THESE CONMEN SAY.THEY HAVE LOST CREDIBILITY.

AND SINCE WHEN DID THEY HAVE A CONCERN FOR POOR PASTORS. THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO THROW DUST INTO OUR EYES.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 11:23 AM

Anonymous said...

What?? CC is concerned for poor pastors?? Since when?? Oh My God-revival is happening inthis land!!!

Sounds more like a cast from Drama Minggu Ini!!! Keep up the good works--- SK & RY.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 1:28 PM

Anonymous said...

Money never goes to the outreach pastors

Many years ago, I interviewed an outreach pastor and found out that he have never never received any Christmas Offering in his life time serving in the outreach church. I was shocked and felt sorry for him and his family because they were then struggling to survive. A Christmas Offering would be very helpful to them but sad to say that they were not in pg's list.

Posted by Money never goes to the outreach pastors to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 3:25 PM

Anonymous said...

Money never goes to the outreach pastors continue ....

Then one Sunday, I saw on the screen showing one overseas pastor giving thanks for the Christmas Offering he has received. I was dumb founded because he is better off than any of our outreach pastors. Then I recall why he receives this Christmas Offering is because each time he comes back, he bought gifts for pgs. No wonder - a 2 ways giving - you give me I give you busienss

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 7:19 PM

Anonymous said...

IS MONEY NOT GIVEN TO OUTREACH PASTORS ?

Can members demand a list of outreach pastors who received money every year form the cc congregation, preferably with amounts forwarded to them respectively ?

We expect the cc adminsitration under RY Tto be able to speedily furnish shuch details to CT2 or TTG.

If RY refuse to cooperate fully on this simple request, we the cngregation would be very disappointed, drawing on the inevitable conclusion regarding the love offering money collected.

If that happens, in future we will not donate a single sen through cc, but give directly to these outreach pastors.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 8, 2011 7:32 PM

Anonymous said...

.you are so blessed that CC give you so many many opportunities to give so that your barns WILL BE FULL

.................................

HE SAID WHAT ...?????? HAHAHAHAHAHA....HEHEHEHEHEHE.....HOHOHOHOHOH...
ITS NOT YOUR BARNS WILL BE FULL BUT ITS HIS BARNS ...LAH SOH CHAI!!!! THIS CONMEN HAVE MANY WAYS OF FLEECING THE DUMP SHEEP AND SHOWING A CARROT TO THE DONKEY IS ONE OF THEM!!! HAHAHAHA...HEEE....MY BARNS WILL BE FULL EH??? HAHAHAHA..HOHOHOHOHHOMY TUMMY HURTS. THANKS FOR THE LAUGH!!PENTECOSTAL JOKERS FROM THE CC CIRCUS!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 12:39 PM

ANOTHER SMALL FRY said...

Money never goes to the outreach pastors...............
Thanks for the enlightenment...i always had this feeling that what SP and his ass. pastors tells the sheep is to MAKE THE SHEEP FEEL SO SO GOOD...that they (obedient sheep) had blessed the poor outreach pastors during the Christmas season of giving. By so doing the obedient sheep had sent up gold...instead of wood...to Heaven to build their big beautiful houses. So the more you bless others, the bigger your house in heaven will be!!! Otherwise St. Peter said to you...this is your small, simple kampung house. What a clever and effective strategy to make CC sheep give...oops not give but bless others..(Ref: SP's sermons in cheras on 29/03/2011, 10/04/2011, 31/07/2011, 14/08/2011, 18/09/2011 and 06/11/2011). Dear SP you might as well put all your favourite ingredients {like ...bigger giving, bigger blessings...tithe is not a gift but a payment, law.. so don't rob God..balance 90% you better give...you are so blessed that CC give you so many many opportunities to give so that your barns WILL BE FULL ( read: so my barns may be overflowing so chai!)...you can only give becos God has given you...no need to protect the church, God doesn't need your help, HE KNOWS HOW TO REMOVE PEOPLE!!!...you keep pushing barriers away you will hurtle to Hell...God will say "Well I give up" etc etc etc...} into a blender and on the days of your duty i mean when you need to preach just pour out a portion and serve to CC sheep. Oh yes don't forget to keep some back so that you can serve again and again the same old stew since you are so fond of 'Remember the previous sermon/s i preached?' and then you will go on and on...and all of a sudden you will grinningly say 'That was just the introduction!' Ha Ha..as if so funny. Perhaps inwardly you maybe thinking 'Come so chai sheep, that was a joke please laugh lah please lah give me some face!!' Notice how he laughs at his stale stale jokes. Really so pathetic! Any good speaker will keep a poker face when he cracks a joke. The audience laughs first, not the person who cracks the joke. Otherwise you are no better/different from the inmates at Tanjung Rambutan!!! Notice how many ass. pastors are also like this? especially RY. How true they say birds of the same feather flock together or should i say dogs of the same fur bark together??

What, you think so many CC sheep suffer from Amnesia that you need to repeat and repeat and repeat your limited sermons until... 'Oops by the way i have no time to finish this sermon; you can get the tape...read: aha so chai more to overflow my barn/s'. Or you don't have materials to preach other than prosperity-and-more prosperity and hitting-the-sacked-sheep sermons?

Talking about Amnesia, i notice PG1, PG2 and all the ass. pastors are really really seriously suffering from it. Dear PG1, PG2 and all of you ass. pastors please take Calvary News Jan/Feb 2011 and TAKE A GOOD GOOOOOD LOOK! Use a magnifying glass if you can't see the words. What's the THEME FOR THIS YEAR? $$$ for CCC? Christmas love offerings? Don't judge others? If they don't agree Sack them!!? God's Army-Get in line? God has blessed you, you better give or..? Life isn't Fair? etc...Dear so-called shepherds of CC how many of you remember or even bother about the church theme when you prepare your sermons or all that is in your limited capacity brains is $$$ and more $$$ for CCC?

Btw how are much SP and the rest of the ass. pastors getting? i ask my LG leader(a very senior Calvarite) and lay leaders this question and all said don't know. One former church auditor told me SP and his ass. pastors don't get salaries, only STIPEND whatever that means. He can't remember how much. Is it SP's tactic that by classifying it as stipend, you need not let CC sheep know???

Even the pay and allowances of PM of Malaysia can be known. So how come nobody can know what SP and his ass. pastors are getting?

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Anonymous said...

THEY DONT NEED IT ANYMORE...
................
Remember the time we CC collected a huge amount of money for the guise of Tsunami Fund?? CC delayed the money collected - and then some time later when the question was posed by one of the faithful"Has the money been sent??" the CC leadership - Jellyfish SK & RY the religious Salesman asnwered- ' THEY DONT NEED IT ANYMORE@!!!" They did not even bother to answer the question but completely avoided it!! I was dumbstruck !!!

So where did the money go?? Most probably it went to SPs expenses flying top class and staying in top hotels.[ and a nice Christmas bonus for CC staff?)

Until now they do not have the decency to return the money as the original purpose no longer existed.

Listen CC leadership- I know you have been conning the sheep. The Master once said" By their fruits you will know them" AND NOT BY THEIR TALK AND SERMONS.

In my family's opinion, you have cheapened yourselves for filthy lucre's sake. What is the latest gimmick?? Collecting $$ for poor pastors? How come the sudden concern for poor pastors in the land.? Can you please tell the congregation who these pastors are and how much they received? I know of many poor AOG Pastors who have not received a single cent from CC at any time.HOW ABOUT THE DECENCY OF BEING TRANSPARENT??? FRAUDS AND HYPOCRITOS!! SHAMEFUL!!!

SP- step down- it is plain you are backslidden and right now are just trying to cover your trail of slime.You can fool some but not all because many in the congregation are now awake.IF YOU ARE A MAN OF HONOUR RETURN THE TSUNAMI MONEY.FOR ONCE PROVE THAT YOU HAVE INTEGRITY.TO MORE NICE SOUNDING EXPLANATIONS FROM THE PULPIT.( WITH sentimental music in the background - of course). Game is almost over!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 1:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Btw how are much SP and the rest of the ass. pastors getting? i ask my LG leader(a very senior Calvarite) and lay leaders this question and all said don't know.

............................
Thats because their salary is much more than he average church member. In this aspect most of the AOG Rev's salary is shrouded in mystery. They have their salary,Offerings, Christmas Offerings, Bonus and pastor days gifts and other what not.

For those of us in the secular world, we are not entitled to these perks or benefits.

God Bless you all. Lets pray and work towards more accountabilty in church.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 2:28 PM

Anonymous said...

If that happens, in future we will not donate a single sen through cc, but give directly to these outreach pastors.

...........................
We dont have to go through the CC leadership to give to poor pastors as we know deep down inside this is just a hogwash.Most probably it will go to their own AOG cronies.Anyway- why the sudden concern for the poor pastors in the land?? This is rather unusual for CC.What a load of another bucket of AOG Crap- with a capital "C". SK & RY - please come up with somthing original next time. You are beginning to become an eye sore and a big bore- to say the least.My husband almost had a stroke when he heard the sudden concern for the poor!!

Face it lah- AOG Quacks!!!You are interested in mega multi million dollar buildings- not the poor. And would you now pull the wool over the dumb sheep eyes.???

FORMER DUMB SHEEP.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 2:49 PM

Anonymous said...

.Dear so-called shepherds of CC how many of you remember or even bother about the church theme when you prepare your sermons or all that is in your limited capacity brains is $$$ and more $$$ for CCC?

...................................

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF ONE DAY RY ABSENT MINDEDLY SINGS THIS SONG DURING THE WORSHIP SERVICE-

MONEY, MONEY MONEY,
MUST BE FUNNY
IN A RICH MAN'S WORLD
HA...HAAAAA...HA... HAAAAA..(Soft piano music here)
ALL THE THINGS I COULD DO
IF I HAD THE MONEY,MONEY MONEY
IN A RICH MANS WORLD.

Closing Line- Original

BUT SINCE WE CANT EARN THE MONEY, MONEY MONEY

WE THINK ITS OKAY TO USE THE CHURCH TO FLEECE YOU!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 3:18 PM

Anonymous said...

THIS IS A GENTLE REQUEST FROM THE WRITER "ANOTHER SMALL FRY"

Your messages are very important for the workforce out here but in order for it to be readable, it must be broken into paragraphs and further must not be "cheong hei".If it becomes too long- stop and begin on a new page.

There are many out there reading what you write and it is a real eye opener for us out here.

This is just a request and thank you for sharing your observations.Together lets stand against these fraudsters and wolves in our midst.

THANKS.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 9, 2011 3:25 PM

Anonymous said...

MY REV. PASTOR IS A DR. NOW??

I got quite curious when all of a sudden my Church Pastor began to use the title Dr.Rev.(The whole church knows that he is not intellectually inclined)He graduated with a Diploma from BCM.

A LITTLE INFO FOR THE AOG REVERENDS WHO USE THE DR.TITLE BEFORE THEIR NAMES.(Or are planning/desirious to do so)

I am an educationalist attending a small AOG group and am competent to give an opinion in respect of the Doctorate Title.

1.To be conferred a Doctorate Title- you must do 3 years research on a full time basis.The maximum time allowed is 12 years on a part time.

2.There must be a Supervisor over the student and the Student is supposed to report to the Supervisor as he/she instructs.

3.To join these group of Ph.D Academics the student must make an original contribution to knowledge in their chosen field.

3. After the 3 years, the students must attend an examination before a Board who will ask searching questions in respect of their Thesis & Contribution.If the students answer does not satisfy the Board- the Thesis will be rejected.( Most Phd's are rejected due to expert plagiarism- copying wholesale from other authors and presenting it as their own.Liable for breach of Copyright under The Copyright Act)

4.In the Humanities and Social Sciences, students have to come up with their own topics within the feild in which the Supervisor is an expert.

5.Ph.D candidates often go through a prolonged time of isolation during their research, that many become disillusioned and just walk away after some time-and without a Ph.D.

The AOG Council-or whoever is operating the system right now need to come up with clear guidelines as to the use of Doctorate Titles before the Pastor's names.

Fixing the title Pastor is allright as it does not even remotely connote an Academic.Dr. is something else.

The honorary title Dr.is NOT EQUIVALENT to a Ph.D (This is described a "passing off" under the Law of Tort)

If any AOG Rev. claims that he is Dr.- that it is only proper that he explain to the congregation,what research he did,how many years he studied, Supervisors name and what original contribution he made to his chosen field.

There is nothing wrong witht he Dr. Title but it has the effect of misleading the church and attracts the cynicism of secular people.Regards.

God Bless Your Season here on Earth.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 12:07 PM

Anonymous said...

Jellyfish SK & RY the religious Salesman answered " They dont need it anymore."

...........................So Mr, Jellyfish and the Salesman- you make so many announcements, how about explaining what happened to the Tsunami Offering. We are so eager that others be accountable but WHAT ABOUT YOU??

COME ON- GIVE CC AN PLAIN EXPLANATION?? DID YOU DUMP THE MONEY INTO THE NEW CCC? FOR ONCE- PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH.

NO MORE JELLYFISH STORIES AND SALESTALK@!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 12:12 PM

Anonymous said...

One former church auditor told me SP and his ass. pastors don't get salaries, only STIPEND ....
................................
HE SAID WHAT?ONLY STIPEND???????? HAHAHAHAHA...HAHA..HOHOHOHHO...HEHEHEHEHEHE....AGAHAGAHAGAH....

GOT CONNED AGAIN BY THOSE CONMEN!!!HAHAHAHA....HEHEHEHE.....HOHOHOHOH....

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 12:15 PM

Anonymous said...

Once upon a time, a church worker (CW) was hauled up before PG & grilled by PG on why the CW should be getting some $$$ in an envelope marked for the CW via the offering bag.
................................
SP WAS ALWAYS AFTER THE LIONS SHARE.THERE WILL BE VERY LITTLE REWARD IN HEAVEN FOR HIM BECAUSE JESUS ALREADY PAID HIM HERE IN EARTH.ITS THE POOR PASTORS WHO WILL BE MOST BLESSED THERE.THE ONLY THING THAT WAKES UP SP IS THE $$$$ SIGN- VERY LITTLE DOUBT ABOUT THAT!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 12:33 PM

Anonymous said...

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF ONE DAY RY ABSENT MINDEDLY SINGS THIS SONG DURING THE WORSHIP SERVICE-

.................................
RY is the hireling that Jesus cautioned us about.His sermon on Noah " Obey now and ask why later" - in my mind is just twisting of the Scriptures.

Just be careful of these backslidden pastors.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 1:03 PM

Anonymous said...

How come the sudden concern for poor pastors in the land.? Can you please tell the congregation who these pastors are and how much they received?
..............................
I AM PRETTY SURE THAT THEY WILL SELECT SOMEONE FOR THEIR "CUCI MATA" PROGRAMMES.IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE EXPERTS AT THESE "SANDIWARAS" LEVAE THEM ALONE- THEY ARE BLIND GUIDES TO THE BLIND- EVENTUALLY BOTH " JATUH DALAM LONGKANG!!"

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 1:24 PM

Anonymous said...

Christmas is just around the corner and I guess the wolves must be planning quite a few new stunts to fleece the ship.First to surface is the Crap "offering for poor pastors ". Waiting to see what other cat will come out of the bag.CC is indeed degenerated into a House that churns out Crap.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 1:40 PM

Anonymous said...

What is the latest Drama about offerings for the poor pastors? Its all a web of lies. I have personally asked about a dozen pastors, including those who live the most simple life working among the Asli's and they have never received a cent from CC anytime!!

SO THIS IS THE LATEST CONJOB BY CC LEADERSHIP??

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 2:00 PM

Anonymous said...

CC should follow our church accountability for special Christmas collections. Name the organisations, individual pastors and amount to be given to them and the total amount required to disburse. After Christmas, stick up the "thank you" cards and acknowledgments from the organisations and individual ministers.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 3:30 PM

Anonymous said...

I got quite curious when all of a sudden my Church Pastor began to use the title Dr.Rev.(The whole church knows that he is not intellectually inclined)He graduated with a Diploma from BCM.

..................................
COMMENT ON THE ABOVE

My- Ex Pastor went to the US for 1 month and came back with a Dr.Title.He wasted no time in printing new name cards with the "DR" title in Red in front of his name and distributing them.Not only that,but from then on his speeches began to sound intellectual.The young dropouts from School were very impressed but our family knew it was just fake!!! His new Title was Dr.Reverend. I still remember his pathetic sermon from Romans- "Give honour where honour is due".

If he's a Datuk then call him a Datuk,if a Datin, then address them as Datin, if a DR. then address him a Dr!!!.....

The blogger who wrote the above really opened my eyes. Until I read the above writer, I did not know the requirements for a Ph.D.

I thought the Dr. Title was equal to a Ph. D. I think many of these AOG Reverends suffer from feelings of insecurity.The proper title for a Pastor is " Servant of Christ"

BUT WHO DESIRES TO BE A SERVANT IN THE AOG???SO FAR I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ONE.MAYBE WHEN I STRIKE IT RICH, THEY WILL NOTICE ME AND SEEK ME OUT FOR FELLOWSHIP.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 4:10 PM

Anonymous said...

I find it humorous that someone here is describing RY as as Salesman but I believe that the statement is true!!!

About the collection for poor pastors- I think they must produce a list of poor pastors who will be recipients of this money,exactly which church they are pastoring, and what is the TOTAL amount alloted for them individually.Don't be afraid to ask questions. You have a right to know.Don't fall for the all time usual Crap-' OBEY NOW AND ASK WHY LATER!!!" And the other famous line uttered at from CC's Pulpit- " When you give $$ to CC you don't ask where it goes"( WELL SIR, NOWADAYS our family DON'T ASK QUESTIONS AT ALL BECAUSE WE HAVE STOPPED GIVING ALTOGETHER. FAIR ENOUGH??)

Has anyone seen such a name list of the poor pastors yet?? I think members who give $$$ have a right to know where it is going. Remember we are dealing with a leadership that axed 400 for asking questions about accountability and transparency.

Look at the scene. Pam has mysteriously disappeared and no explanation has been offered.Rev. Jerry Chow has also disappeared without any fanfare.CC is not what is used to be.It has become a unique circus by itself.A CIRCUS OF DECEPTION AND A WEB OF LIES.

Since the Salesman RY and that Jellyfish SK spoke about the offering due to poor pastors, then both of them must produce a name list.Otherwise there is no assurance that the money collected will not suffer the same fate as the $$$ collected for Tsunami.( They don't need it anymore)

What I suspect is this. The offering is supposedly for poor pastors,right? But the time frame is not mentioned. Just exactly when will these Poor Pastors get the money?? Before Christmas, after?? New Year, CNY???.... when???( No Pastors Names given until this day.Is this going to be a secret offering??????????????????)

This is what SP and ASS. Pastors will do. They will allot a certain amount to a certain Pastor far away in the mission field, so the members have no chance TO query- and we will be shown a videotape of a Grateful Pastor thanking CC for the generous contribution grinning from ear to ear.ITS ANOTHER STUNT FROM SP'S BAG-lah Soh Chai!!!

But will the pastors receive the full offering? REMEMBER FOLKS- THIS IS THE LEADERSHIP THAT WITHHELD THE TSUNAMI $$$. CAN YOU TRUST THESE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING NOW???

I suspect there are other AOG wolves lurking in the shadows watching and reading the bloggers writeup here. Let them read and learn the lesson.You just don't axe 400 and continue to go on preaching as though nothing important in church has happened.This is a lesson that All AOG REVERENDS HAVE TO LEARN.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 4:38 PM

Academician said...

In the ministerial community today, there are genuine doctorate holders and there are dubious doctorate holders. How do you distinguish the two? In Christian education/training, there are two tracks to obtain a recognized doctorate degree. Firstly, the traditional Ph.D track. It is thesis based and supervised by a Professor. This is often pursued by pastors who wants to become academicians. Secondly, there is also the Doctor of Ministry (DMin) track. The D.Min track is based on modular courses offered in distinguished colleges/universities taught by different professors, studied with cohorts over a period of 3-4 years depending on the program and school. This studies often culminates with a project dissertation or thesis. This track is popular with pastors who want increase their knowledge and remain in pastoral ministry.

I hope this will enlighten the Christian community of the different tracks to obtain a recognized doctorate.


Then, there are honorary degrees conferred on pastors in recognition of their ministry. Honorary doctorate holders should not use the letters Dr but if they do, they should use it in brackets as in (Dr)to denote that is a honorary degree.

The final group are dubious characters with dubious doctorates. The quickest and easiest way is to buy a doctorate from an internet college with minimal work done.

Regretfully, some genuinely studied for a program only to find that it was offered by a University/College/church based school or organisations offering degree mills to unsuspecting students.

Hope this will shed some light regarding doctorate holders in our Christian community. The best is to ask "how long was the course", "who is the conferring school" to gauge the authenticity of the degree.

Posted by Academician to Calvary Today 2 at November 10, 2011 6:42 PM

Anonymous said...

Since CC leadership NEVER and did not practice Transparancy, Accontability & Good Governance , then do not give CC a single cent !

I also propose that you do not give to CC any amount of money to pay their salarise at all ! WHY GIVE to CC and then later COMPLAIN that they are not Transparent !

Just appoint some responsible & Accountable groups to collect the Christmas offerings and give directly to the Poor Pastors we know ! Support the missionary directly !

Let's continue to (TOTT) Turn Off The Tap and let CC leadership FADE AWAY !

Let's FAST and PRAY for the LORD of HOSTS to move in our efforts to bring about SPIRITUAL AWAKENING & CHANGE in CC !

Fr CT2 @ November 10, 2011 11:16 PM

Anonymous said...

PG was from the Bible Institute of Malalya (now Bible College of Malaysia) in 1966. He joined CC in November 1972. Robert Lim was also from BIM.

PG was conferred an honorary Doctorate of Divinity by Full Gospel central Bible College, California, USA in December 1980. In May 1983, he was conferred an honorary Doctorate of Letters (D. Litt.) by the California Graduate School of Theology.

PG is REV. Dr. Prince Guneratnam, D.D., D.Litt.

Based on what Academician said, shouldn't it be:

Rev. (Dr.) Prince Guneratnam, (D.D.), (D. Litt.)

Robert Lim was also conferred an honorary doctorate.

Many pastors hold honorary doctorates. Often they are so....proud behaving like "I got a Doctorate, what you have?" attitude.

If some of our political ministers, put their honorary doctorates after their names on their name cards, there would not be enough space on the cards to do so!

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 12:24 AM

CLEAN HANDS said...

“Yet the righteous will hold to his way,
And he who has CLEAN HANDS
will be STRONGER AND STRONGER” (Job 17:9).

PG, ARE YOU HAVING CLEAN HANDS?
PG, ARE YOU STRONGER AND STRONGER?

TTG ARE HOLDING ON TO HIS WAYS.
AMEN AND AMEN

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 11:31 AM

Anonymous said...

Honorary doctorate holders should not use the letters Dr but if they do, they should use it in brackets as in (Dr)to denote that is a honorary degree.
................................

IT IS AN ANCIENT ENGLISH CUSTOM THAT HONORARY DOCTORATES WOULD USE THE TITLE IN ( ) AND EVEN SO IT MUST BE AT THE BACK OF THEIR NAMES-NOT PRE-FIXED IN THE FRONT.THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS OFF, AS THOUGH HE HAD WRITTEN AN INTELLECTUAL THESIS AND MADE AN ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTION TO KNOWLEDGE IS NONE OTHER THAN THE SP HIMSELF.

ALL WOULD BE DR.REVERENDS- KINDLY TAKE NOTE.

KIND REGARDS.

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 12:21 PM

Anonymous said...

Many pastors hold honorary doctorates. Often they are so....proud behaving like "I got a Doctorate, what you have?" attitude.
..................................
It is obvious that these are the AOG quacks, pretentious and lovers of status.From what I see, most of them desire the title Rev. before moving on to more exalted titles.Its all about status for them.How many members DO YOU HAVE?? How Big is your church??? If you are running a big church- then you are welcome to fellowship with others who ALSO have big churches. But if you a pastor of a small church- sorry lah brother (WE BELONG TO A DIFFERENT "KELAS"-OH YEAH??? This is a sure sign of a backslidden religious devil. Nothing to be afraid of.)


The biggest problem with the AOG mentality is that they think that they are at the very top of the power structure within the church. That would explain why they refuse to be accountable- it is beneath their dignity and certainly not their practice.

QUOTE-CC'S LEADERSHIP

WHEN YOU GIVE US THE MONEY, YOU DONT TELL US WHAT TO DO WITH IT.-

Now lets analyze the above statement carefully.

The first thing I notice here is the -NON-respect that is being demonstrated to other Christians.ANYWAY, WHO ARE YOU TO BE ASKING ME QUESTIONS?? I AM THE SENIOR PASTOR HERE -SO YOU DON'T QUESTION ME. JUST SUBMIT.That is the message.

WHEN YOU GIVE US THE MONEY....

Behind this statement is the ASSUMPTION that it is compulsory to pay 10% of your income to the church.Anything more is considered as an offering.So far at CC- I have heard about 20 different kinds of offerings besides the latest Gimmick about 'offering for poor pastors".Only at CC we hear about a "Buy a Brick" offering & Seedfaith Offering. In that sense CC is an original in coming up with new "guilt trips" before shearing the sheep.

DON TELL US

In other words-never ask about transparency and accountability. That is not your concern.Within the AOG structure, the Rev. is at the head of the church- so how can the members tell him anything?It is unthinkable.

WHAT TO DO WITH IT

It is this disease that has caused much problems. How can the church collect money from worshippers and then tell them to stay off??Dont ask anything and further- we will do with your money whatever we want.

This is the reason. A further analysis.THIS IS HOW THEIR BRAIN WORKS... When the money leaves your hands and enters the offering bags, they consider it THEIR MONEY!!!!

If CC is brave enough to put on their notice Board how much Bonus has SP received over the years together with all the Pastors- I think the members will gasp just looking at this sheet.IF THEY ARE TRANSPARENT - THE FIGURES WILL BE SELF EXPLANATORY.

I believe that we must stand together against this AOG Bullshit.
We have to make a stand now for the next generation of worshippers under an AOG leadership. They are the young adults right before our eyes.

LETS TELL AOG REVERENDS- THEY MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS,THEY MUST BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT CHURCH FINANCES, AND THEY JUST CANNOT BOOT OUT 400 AND CARRY ON PREACHING AND COLLECTING MONEY.

SOMEONE SHOULD TELL THE AOG QUACKS- JESUS DIED FOR PEOPLE - NOT FOR A HUGE BUILDINGS.

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 1:02 PM

Anonymous said...

PG has three honorary doctorates, namely:

Doctor of Law (LL.D),
Doctor of Litterrarum (D. Litt.),
Doctor of Divinity (D.D.)

In Britain, there are not many honorary doctorates, one got to go through the mill to get it. It is different in USA. Many universities/organizations dish out honorary degrees. For example, Robert Lim's honorary Doctor of Divinity was conferred to him in Oct. 1989 by Bethesa School of Theology (California) founded by David Yonggi Cho and Robert's wife, Marion Lim, was also conferred the title by Bethesa in May, 1997.

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 3:43 PM

Anonymous said...

OTHERS BEFORE SELF

We are quite amused by the detailed discusssions surrounding the honorary manmade tiles like Reverend, Pastors, Dr and the like. while it is perfectly okay to treat it as an academic scholarly discussion, we feel many of the the AOG leaders may fall into the trap of being too obsessed about these manamade titles, with the totla GENUINE basis (bases) of giving the CERTAIN such respective recipients may be bogged in questionable circumstances and background, living testimony, references, SELFLESS (not selfish) contributions to communities and society in general, etc.

The main point is how many among these socalled Reverends, Senior Pastors, Drs, anhd other fancy MANMADE names attached are TRULY SERVANTS OF GOD ?

Do they always put "OTHERS FIRST before self" like Jesus Christ, during His Ministry on earth ? do they even follow the footsteps of the Godfearing and God loving disciples ?

Or have some of these AOG church leaders deviated / distracted from the teachings of our Lord of Lords and King of Kings ? We the congregation and society in general can definitely separate the sheep from the WOLVES in sheepskin !

Your Christlike benavior shines as living testimony to all others, Christians AND unsaved, as example for all to follow as SERVANTS OF GOD, which is worth more in value than any other manmade titles bestowed to you. The seeking of such titles could be a TRAP set by the DEVIL to divert energy, resources (including finances and manpower), time away from the GREAT COMMISSION of saving souls, our main objective for all churches.

Just a thought provoking question for readers :

Assuming all other factors remain equal eg same age, same education background, same social class: Do you HONESTLY AND TRULY think a pastor or a priest from a small church (congregation size of 20 persons) have GOOD CHANCE OF FAIR and EQUAL ASSESSMENT to qualify for the REVEREND / DR TITLE,in comparison to that of another pastor of another church with congregation size, totalling about 3,000 persons, perhaps like cc ?

Other questions start popping up in our minds regarding the current size of church staff in certian churches - maybe it got something to do with the pursuit of the REVEREND ? DR title. If you got the luxury of a huge staff force, you can delegate alot of your work to leisurely pursue this target - REVEREND / DR ! You can assign your numerous staff to do research using church money and time in ursuit of this PERSONAL objective. And you can even put up a duty rooster of who's turn (which ass pastors) to preach throughout the year (while you preach only occasionally ) ! And you can schedule family holidays (officially working trips like this AOG convention or that international church conference ! Read between the lines... you are starting to get the picture.

So do you still think these socalled blacksheep leaders believe and practise "OTHERS BEFORE SELF" ?

HO HO HO , MERRY CHRISTMAS !
maybe they think it's already snowing in KAY EL ! aLREADY Collecting for Christmas love offering in FIRST WEEK OF NOVEMBER 2011 ! Really ? Not bluffing ? You serious ?

Another sick AOG JOKE ?

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 5:56 PM

Anonymous said...

With so many pastors with honorary doctorates around, the title honorary (Dr.) are a dime a dozen.

PG, Robert Lim, Marion Lim, Kong Hee. Incidentally, Robert, Marion and Kong Hee were conferred these titles by David Yonggi Cho or Universities connected with him or his wife.

After reading the subject regarding honorary titles in the blog, none of the above uses Dr. in brackets i.e. (Dr.). After getting the honorary title, these pastors use Dr. gloriously to impress the congregation.

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 8:00 PM

Anonymous said...

LEADERS EARN, NOT DEMAND, RESPECT

Throughout human history, various civilisations developed, reached their peak and collapse into nothingness. Al ambitious leaders in the form of kings, emperors, rjahs, maharajahs etc demanded respect, but failed miserably.

REspect must be earned, not demanded or begged !

Fr CT2 @ November 11, 2011 9:59 PM

Anonymous said...

DON'T WORRY

"So don't worry, saying "What shall we eat ? What shall we drink ? or What shall we wear ? But seek first his kingdom and righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."
MATTHEW 6:31,33

The question of what shall we wear also includes self loving pastors and priests who seek gratification to bask in public admiration for the grand sounding manmade titles like Reverend / Dr, etc. They are enslaved by the devil to think they need to "wear" such titular chains to show their position and status, when the truth shows that their indentity hinges on being God's children, and faithful servants, carrying out the Great Commission.

Instead of building God's kingdom, they concentrated their attention on construction their personal "kingdoms" on earth like a certain satanic prince !

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 8:13 AM

Anonymous said...

PG, ARE YOU HAVING CLEAN HANDS?

.............................


PG having clean hands?????

HAHAHAHAHA.....HOHOHOHO.....HEHEHEHE.....EEEEEEEE....OOOO...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.....

WHAT WAS THAT HE SAID? DOES NOT RECEIVE SALARY BUT ONLY A STIPEND????

HAHAHAHA...HOHOHOHO...HEHEHEHEHE

THANKS FOR THAT HEARTY LAUGH. ALL OF US HERE IN THE OFFICE NEEDED IT.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 12:24 PM

Anonymous said...

After getting the honorary title, these pastors use Dr. gloriously to impress the congregation......
...............................
Your Discernment is correct. It's all about recognition lah-- Soh Chai. Its also about protecting their fragile egos. In my experience with these so -called Reverends- most of them cannot "tahan" if anyone disagrees with them. Their word must take precedence over all others. If you question them on any issue, they will keep an eye on you, Or startbackbiting you, OR make you feel unwelcome in the church.SOME OF THESE ARE RELIGIOUS DEMONS IN DISGUISE OPERATING WITHIN THE CHURCH.( This is my humble opinion. And sometimes they can be really gifted in talking)

My pastor used to run down- Non _ Charismatics saying they are not filled with the Spirit.And he was real effective in causing a division until the congregation saw the Non- Charismatics and the Catholics as a group of misguided devils!!!

What a load of AOG Bullshit!!!My Aunt is a Catholic and she is a real wonderful person. But God exposed him and to keep it short...he is no more in the Ministry and back in the secular world.

THE REVERENDS IN THE AOG DENOMINATION NEED TO UNLEARN A LOT OF THINGS. AND IF THEY ARE GENUINE, THEY WOULD NOT BE CONDEMNING THIS BLOG BUT LISTEN TO THE MANY VOICES.

REMEMBER--THE CHURCH IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL FAMILY INHERITANCE FOR YOU TO BE THROWING YOUR WEIGHT AROUND.YOU ARE THERE TO SERVE GOD. IF YOU CANT -- GO AND DO SOMETHING ELSE.BETTER BE OUT THERE TO WORK THEN TO BE PRETENDING TO DO GOD'S WORK IN CHURCH.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 12:40 PM

Anonymous said...

After reading the subject regarding honorary titles in the blog, none of the above uses Dr. in brackets i.e. (Dr)
.................................
Something happened in our church between Friday and today- Saturday afternoon. My Dr.Reverend Pastors Doctorate Scroll disappeared overnight.Many of us saw it there hangin in his office gloriously in its Gold Frame during prayer meeting- but today it has mysteriously disappeared.And he is not in a mood for conversation.

I THINK THIS BLOG IS HAVING SOME EFFECT!!!CHEERS.!!YOUTH GROUP


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 1:21 PM

Anonymous said...

The whole CCC project is not of God.To be comparing SP's motivations to that of Noah is just downright stupid. Noah built an ARK and It's not written anywhere that he borrowed big money to build it.Neither did he preach " Dont ask why"

This Crap by RY-(DeSCRIBED AS A SALESMAN BY ANOTHER BLOGGER- is just so fitting)
Obey now and ask why later is just so ridiculous.A prudent Christian has to ask why Now and not later- after the damage is done.It similar to a Revernd with his tough talk= but when the scandal is exposed- he conveniently walks off.

The Pentecostal Scene is just riddled with too many smooth talking AOG toads.Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts and Chonggi Yo - who dishes out Doctorates to his cronies.

But the trouble is the AOG Reverends seek after all these titles. Loving to be addressed as a Reverend is just one thing.I want to thank the person who wrote about the requirements of a Ph.D. I can imagine these Reverends blushing in their faces.My Pastor has about 2 dozen books in his personal library.( and he returned with a Dr. title after a short stint in the Phillippines)

CC's glorious days are gone. It will only return if we can repent and turn back.So many people left but we are still after the building. Its all about recognition for the AOG Rev.- and they seldom care about people besides their cronies.

It is just so saddening.Wake up -lah AOG Ministers. A spirit of slumber has come upon them.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 1:48 PM

ANOTHER SMALL FRY said...

Thanks to A GENTLE REQUEST for your kind reminder.
Thanks to this blog so many unethical and dark practices by so called SP, his ass. pastors(read:henchmen) and the BOD(read:spineless kaki bodek) has come out in the open. SP and all his gang members must be really kicking their asses for having axed the 400. Dear 400 you are not alone. KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT. YOU HAVE MANY SUPPORTERS either openly or otherwise.

Becos of this and other unBiblical acts many others had voluntarily left CC. and there are those in CC who has TOTT. Today the once glorious CC with 3000 members and associate members don't even have 700 members?. And just observe how many attended the EGM seeking approval for the deceitful JV or Sale of the CC commercial land.

Hardly 10 years ago Easter presentation can almost fill Putra Stadium at Bukit Jalil. This year Easter presentation can't even fill the much smaller Lee San Choon Hall at Wisma MCA. I still remember the awesome feeling at the congregational worship at Putra Stadium compared to this year.

Coming to Sunday worship service we the cheras sheep sometimes exceeded 300 just a couple of years back at UCSI. Now with our very own building Pusat Aktiviti Cheras and part of the closed-down Ampang satellite joining us we can't even touch 300. Why? Let me give a number of possible reasons.

i) Nowadays how often do you get to hear an inspiring sermon that is really anointed by God in CC?

ii)There is no continuity or theme in the sermons from week to week despite CC having a theme for each year. i pray God will raise up at least one ass. pastor in who dare to tell SP enough is enough and stop the rot!

iii)Transport. How many vans does the church have? cheras use to have quite a number of international worshippers especially from Nigeria when we were in UCSI. When i was in the States i met some Korean ladies waiting for their church transport. They told me it was common practice.
Pastor PO you have told us many times to provide transport for others which many of us did. BUT NOT ONCE HAVE I SEEN YOU PO DOING SUCH. Neither have you ever offer the church vans even for Evangelistic Work like this year Easter Presentation. i told this to some senior lay leaders and the answer was UNBELIEVABLE!! "Maybe they don't have enough drivers." Btw i just can't see why ass. pastors need to drive SP to his sermon and be at his beck and call. Or is it SP has NO DRIVING LICENCE??? or HE CAN GET LOST EASILY??? just like during his sermons!! When Pastor Lawrence from Charis came to preach at the Chinese Evangelistic Meet in cheras he didn't come with his chauffer and fan carrier.

iv)No Chinese or Tamil service. How many years already CC in existence? Yet we don't even have a Chinese worship service. Please correct me if i am wrong. CC started as an English service at Jalan Sayor which was originally a Chinese church? If so this is a classic case of the Camel pushing out the Arab after gaining a foothold in the tent. When i poshed this question to one BOD member and senior lay leaders, the response was again UNBELIEVABLE!!!. Oh..maybe the chinese members too few...no chinese pastor...there is already a chinese fellowship...i asked TO himself. He just laugh it off.

v)Sheer arrogance and lack of transparency. Please show the sheep that CC top management is willing to listen to the sheep and be brave and sincere to change. i totally agree with the writer of 'IS MONEY NOT GIVEN TO OUTREACH PASTORS ?' Each week you showed the faith promise collection progress. For once why don't you show the list of outreach pastors who received money every year form the cc congregation, preferably with amounts forwarded to them respectively instead of a lump sum of RM75,530 for personnel out of a total RM172,000 monthly faith promise budget??

vi)plus of course all the twisting of Biblical truths and $$$ scams which you can read in this blog.

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at November 12, 2011 4:49 PM

Anonymous said...

Power and arrogance has gone into PG's head. He behaves as though he is is a more very important man (VVIP) than the Prime Minister.

Years ago during an presentation at PGRM, I had seen PG being escorted by an AP from the VIP room to the hall. In CC he will come into the sanctuary through the side door escorted by one of the APs. I had observed that it is either DS or the half a G, CL. Isn't this pure arrogance and the VVVIP image PG is projecting? Maybe he is so so rich, that he needs a bodyguard even in his own church.

BTW, can someone tell me the job specification or responsibilities of the half G, CL The Creative and Arts department Director. I suppose being the son-in-law has great benefits. Unlike SK who has the hottest seat in CC, CL pales by comparison.

Life is easy and comfortable for CL in CC. Why? Here's why:

1) Outside teachers are engaged to train those aspiring musicians.
2) The church choir has been disbanded. How many years had the choir existed? Must be umpteen years - from blue costume to maroon costume.
3) The Children Ministry is taken out of his hands and given to Susan Tan. when Susan first came back to CC, I remarked to my spouse that sooner or later, this ministry will go to her. I guessed correct.
4) Song lead? Poor SK. Having to hunt for money to satisfy PG's hunger, he does the lead most of the time. Previously it was CL who does it almost every Sunday. Let me give you his record since July.

July: once on 17th.
August: once on 21st, father-in-law's birthday lah. So must sing.
September: NONE
October: on 2nd, shared with SK at the Cornerstone event. Grand event, so must share in the glory. On 16th, he had to song lead because SK was the specker at CC.
November: Not yet. Dunno whether he will show his face on stage.

Very often he sits in the corner behind the musicians or "his more important function" is to escort PG to his seat in the sanctuary otherwise PG will get lost-lah.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 13, 2011 12:42 AM

Anonymous said...

To answer "Another Snall Fry"

Please get facts straight. In Jln Sayor we had a Chinese Congregation and sermons were interpreted to English. As the English section grew it was decided to form an English speaking Church, not separated but part of the Chinese AG Church in Pudu. The English serivce group met on Sunday evening and there was a shop near by blasting out songs which was very disturing. Later the English group grew with missionary pastors and managed to raised enough fund to build the church in DH. The Chinese speaking congretation remained in Jln Sayor and the English speaking congreation got another Church building in DH.

There was no pushing out of Chinese or Tamil speaking members.

Also Christmas gifts were given to our CC outreach pastors or workers not every "poor" pastors.

As I read the comments and descriptions the writers give I am very sad that you have written without fear of God. Do you realise that whatever you write, you have to answer God for that. Just state facts but do not degrade a person. Whatever a person did, Jesus still love that person. Please write with fear and trembling less you will be judged.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 13, 2011 6:49 AM

Anonymous said...

So who started conferring the Reverend titles within the church??

I have visited many churches and sometimes its just so humorous or plain silly.On one pastors door I saw a sign in gigantic capital letters" REV.................... The signboard just announced in no uncertain terms who was the big boss around.In fact no assistant pastor lasted long there.He just uses the pulpit to put you back in your place.That's how insecure he is.

The different pastors I met in AOG Churches.

1. Furiously Charismatic- this pastor had a fantastic experience- usually the Baptism of the Holy Ghost- and they can really preach.I heard a fiery sermon by one Pastor who preached that Jesus would be returning any moment now and that we all should keep our lamps burning - don't be caught without the oil.( Right after the service he began how much had been collected for the building pledges and how much more the church needs)If Jesus is returning any time now- why the building??

2.The Jump About Pastor

This kind is also extremely charismatic- but takes his AOG Crap one step further- Runs down Non- Christian religions and Non- Spirit filled Believers.We hardly hear a sermon without him mentioning Mr. Satan somewhere.

One trait about this man- he can never stand behind the pulpit.He walks about and suddenly to emphasize a point- he jumps and Yells loudly.-' I REBUKE YOU SATAN!! GET AWAY FROM HERE!!!" The whole church will be deathly quiet at this point.

3. The "Let Us Build" Pastor

This pastor does not know what to so with the growing church money.During one church meeting-someone stood up to suggest that we should build a school for the Orang Asli's. His answer?? We must take care of our own first.???? He soon came up with the plans to purchase a building exceeding 2 Million.The church was stupid enough to fall for his crap - and until now the church is paying the bank to settle the loan.Hardly a service goes by without him mentioning money.

3. The Godfather Pastor ( The following is an actual conversation when I was in town visiting an AOG church)

Q. What are you doing here??
A. Just visiting.
Q. Does your Pastor know about this?
A. Do I have to tell him?
Q.Well you are not a member of this church.
A. I did not claim to be a member anywhere.
Q.Well- you have to let your pastor know.
A.I will - on one condition.
Q. What is that?
A. Next time you visit any church- you have to let me know.

( GAVE ME A FIERCE STARE.)

In his mind he is the Boss of the Church and everbody must report to him.

The Mystery Pastor

Nobody knows this mans salary or the other perks he is getting. Likes to play golf and rumour's abound that he is selling some kind of healing rock.(The story is "the rock fell from some planet in the galaxy and has healing properties)


The Hireling Pastor

Just preach and get your salary. Usually in their lifetime- they will put up a building- Call it by some fanciful names-eg.. school of the prophets or Prophetic School or something else( So far no one has started School of Martyrs yet)

The Salesman Pastor

THE TAG ALONG CASE. " OBEY NOW AND ASK WHY LATER" ( This is self explanatory)

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 13, 2011 11:56 AM

ANOTHER SMALL FRY said...

To Anonymous November 13, 2011 6:49 AM. Thank you for your info on the beginning of CC.

i) At no point in my blog did i accuse CC of pushing out chinese or tamil speaking members.(to quote you 'There was no pushing out of Chinese or Tamil speaking members.'). i mentioned...'Please correct me if i am wrong. CC started as an English service at Jalan Sayor...'. i had wanted to know why until today CC don't have either chinese nor tamil worship services.

ii)Quote 'Also Christmas gifts were given to our CC outreach pastors or workers not every "poor" pastors'......Again anonymous nowhere did i ever mentioned giving to every "poor" pastors. Please do not misinterpret what was written. Anyway is it wrong to ask whoever is in charge of this matter to show the list of outreach pastors who received money every year from the cc congregation, preferably with amounts forwarded to them respectively???.

iii)"no need to protect the church, God doesn't need your help, HE KNOWS HOW TO REMOVE PEOPLE!!!...you keep pushing barriers away you will hurtle to Hell...God will say "Well I give up". Do you think this is proper for a sermon? i leave it to the readers of this blog.

iv )"...Are you with me?...If you are still breathing say amen...". Anonymous November 7, 2011 3:12 PM puts it so nicely...This clearly shows he has no respect for the congregation. Simply translated it means if you don't say amens during my message shows you are dead. Such crude remarks. Mr Anonymous you want to judge me also for agreeing to this observation???

Fear of God yes Fear of those who abuse their position no.

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at November 13, 2011 11:39 PM

Anonymous said...

CL was the worship leader at CC today because SK had to be in Cheras and Damansara Perdana. Let's see how often he does it in CC.

I had been to another AOG church which had a pastor heading the Music and Creative Ministry. This pastor sings and almost every Sunday, he will be with the band playing the guitar. This church has many worship leaders - male as well as female.

And this pastor in the Music and Creative Ministry gives messages from the pulpit, too. CL really has a good life in CC.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 13, 2011 11:56 PM

Anonymous said...

To Anony. Nov.13th 6.49am.
Do you know what it really means to fear God? From the manner you write as if you know all about fearing God, I already can see you simply do not understand at all what fear & trembling before God means? We all proclaimed to know what fear of God should mean. But honestly do each of us really know? Only the Spirit of God can teach & reveal to us what it means and take for each of us to truly fear God. Today I would not even dare to claim to truly know the fear of God, for I am still learning what God meant when He called us to "fear & tremble before Him".

But this I know that the CC leadership which do not practised transparency, truth & accountability and had committed spiritual abuse against members have no fear of God. Don't you think so? They have misbehaved and misinterpreted the Word of God to coaxed members to give more of their money which is simply spiritually wrong. Would you dare to twist & lie with the Word of God? Mind you, they are pastors and are they are acting like that! They need to be exposed so that others might not be misled by them, so this is not about degrading them.

So brother,learn to fear God and follow Him, not fear men or follow men.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 8:42 AM

Anonymous said...

According to the Producer’s Note, broadcast Sep 20 by the Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation, Reverend Cho Yong-gi and his family look upon the Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul "as their own private possession and not as a tool to help the less fortunate."
...................................
SAME SO WITH SP AND MANY AOG REVERENDS.STOP GIVING $$$ TO THESE STATUS SEEKING "TARES AMONG THE WHEAT"

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 11:42 AM

Anonymous said...

And which AOG Reverend does not treat the church as his private possession?? I have personally heard many of these Rev's say " I do not not believe in opening the pulpit to everyone but only to the chosen few." Now at firsthearing- that may indeed sound like a very spiritual statement- but on second thought-it is another earful of AOG Bullshit.

No Pastor has all the spiritual giftings. By not inviting spritually gifted people to the church- the Rev.is shortchanging the congregation. If the truth be spoken- this AOG Rev's will not invite whom they dislike for whatever reason. I have noticed firsthand that the clickhisms in the system is unchanging.

At one point of time- all Calvary pastors did not attend the AOG annual gatherings- including the most recent ones.Why?? Of course they are from a big and distinguihed church- why would they want to fellowship with another Pastor who has 20 sheep? It is beneath their dignity.( Where was their concern for the poor then?? I have never heard such an appeal from the CC pulpit)Nobody could touch them. But God Has touched them finally.

The latest Bullshit about caring for the poor? It is almost laughable at their new concerns.It is no delusion that CC is on the downward slide and it is going to degenerate because it is run by unrepentant ministers.

CC pastors should pave the pay for a new leadership who have Gods anointed. Dont behave like many leaders of all political parties in Malaysia.Earlier this year, Gaddaffi said " Libya cannot function withour his leadership!! Per Chanec SP is thinking along that line. After all, he has treated CC like his personal inheritance.Nice rewards for that Salesman Pastor RY and that Obey without question Jellyfish SK.

THE WHOLE LEADERSHIP STINKS RIGHT NOW.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 2:27 PM

Anonymous said...

"as their own private possession and not as a tool to help the less fortunate."
................................

SP AND GANG HELP THE LESS FORTUNATE??? HAHAHAHAHA....HOPHPOU...HEHEHEHE.....HOOO.HOOHOHOHOHOH

PENTECOSTAL JOKERS. THANK YOU FOR THE LAUGHTER!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 2:29 PM

Anonymous said...

I have been reading some of the discussions here lately and am quite surprised at the many write- ups here.I agree with one particular writer her about RY Sermon 'OBEY NOW AND ASK WHY LATER"

So far I have kept quiet because my wife told to shut up and don't get involved. I am writing this from the office.

What I want to say is this. All Christians are entitled to ask where their money is going and for what purpose it is going to be used.To say "Don't ask what we do with the money speaks of non- accountability." In the secular setting you will be booted out if you hold such a view.

Take for example- All Directors of Companies have Fiduciary Duties to the company and one of them is - Not to make a secret profit(There must be Transparency and Accountability and Proper Balance sheets must be produced.)

If any Directors fails in this respect- he will be voted out. Unfortunately, the Constitution of CC appears to have been drafted by a crafty mind.It is only when the crisis emerged that it was discovered that the document is lopsided.- Power is concentrated in a few individuals. Or possibly only one.

SP's statement that he is not an employee is not valid.The Constitution applies to everyone.To say that it only applies to others to the exclusion of himself- then he must explain this to the Church.What gives him the right to stay on after the retirement age??

If he is confident in the God who put him into the Ministry- then he must step down first in accordance with the retirement clause in the Cons. Then let the church decide on a vote in accordance with the Constitution if CC still needs him around.Let the whole church decide his future at CC.

But personally I don't think- he has the courage to go that way.Because the decision may go both ways and if he gets voted out- the last humiliation will be worse than the first.

Never mind.Let him hang on to power and see how longs it lasts.In opinion, the Ass. Pastors are making a fool of themselves by trying to calm the boat.They must heal the rift first before asking for more donations. Humble yourselves and get some Godly Counsel.(And Never get it from your cronies)


"Must Saul die as one of the fools die?" David's Lamentation on hearing of Saul's Death.


Samuel warned him that God had torn away the Kingdom from him and given it to someone more worthy.Saul did not heed the voice.The choice was entirely his.There is no more Gods work at CC right now.Its all mere human activity.The soory truth is this- most AOG Reverends have this "I AM HE" sickness.

My Advice- Only give $$ when the Spirit within prompts. Right now- ignore all money appeals from the pulpit.Obey now and ask why later is a plain twisting of the Scriptures shamelessly.He needs to repent.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 3:30 PM

Anonymous said...

My pastor is also a part time salesman.And I don't think he is alone.For my part as the sole bread winner for the family-I just listen to the sermons and then cabut.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 4:14 PM

Anonymous said...

SP is no more in a position to shepherd God's flock. His hands are not clean and God has exposed not just him, but the whole spirit of the AOG.

He has lived a nice life and treated the church like a family possession.He reputation is smeared BUT HE IS UNDER THE DELUSION THAT AFTER COMPLETION OF CCC THE FLOCK WILL RETURN.

All CC sheep have to start praying for a new leadership.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 5:17 PM

Anonymous said...

BEGINNING OF THE END

The prince, upon usurping his father's throne, immediately enforces a harsh taxation system throughtout his small but prosperous kindgom. He imposed nationwide an punishing feudal system, whereby the peasants and other lower classes suffered alot. He curbed freedom of movement (mobility in and out of his kingdom, at the borders, was closely watched and monitored by his soldiers)and freedom of speech (any sign of opposition was harshly terminated and extinguished). soon he introduced new laws, which one of his favourite captains praised as outstanding and futuristic. However, these laws were actually strengthened his position as overlord of his kingdom. Still his greed pressed him to further squeeze his poor people, his citizens even more harshly, tellling them evergrowing lies about giving sacrificially, for country, for faith, for all !

At last, the people reached the breaking point. They regrouped and laucned a series of surprise attacks, starting with passive resisitance. This stance matured in to full scale warfare by his own people to topple his evil government. The underdogs at last have the upper hand. (Remember Arab Spring 2011 ?)

The price knew he has brought himself and his kingdom to the point of no return, as he lie in the ruins of his once grand castle, flames devouring all possessions he once craved and collected.

As the prince gasped for his last breath, his body's internal system collapsed. He died in horror and misery.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 6:23 PM

Anonymous said...

The spirit of Nimrod is sweeping over the AOG churches and is now alive in Calvary church. Its the pastors dream to build their own religious empire, because like Nimrod the reason to build is the same...then they said "Come let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves" (Gen. 11:4).

CCC like many other AOG mega churches are today's modern version of the "Tower of Babel". Like Nimrod, PG and his pastors wants to build CCC to make a name for themselves.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 14, 2011 7:44 PM

Anonymous said...

DICTATORIAL TENDENCIES - No One Controls Me. I Control Everyone Else

When I read in this blog on the way SP runs CC, it reminded me of the book “First Person” published back in NY 2000 about Russian leader, Vladimir Putin, who was interviewed by three Russian journalists who authored this book.

Putin boasted that “In the Kremlin NO ONE HAS ANY CONTROL OVER HIM because HE CONTROLS EVERYONE ELSE.”

And when asked about his critics, he bluntly replied “TO HELL WITH THEM.”

This is the same type of dictatorial mentality that SP, his APs and many other AOG Reverends and pastors have. Though they get agitated by this blog, their attitude is the same as Putin – “To Hell with them.”

For the present moment, these religious dictators are kings in their little kingdoms though they like to think big of themselves, and they forget they have a Creator who watches their every devious scheme they engineer and they will be judged accordingly as God will not be mocked.

Their Tower of Babel will be an abandoned tower of shame as it falls apart. No matter how many religious titles they have = TOTT and you will turn off their source of power - No money, they cannot talk big and they will be reduced to peanuts.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 8:23 AM

Anonymous said...

For the present moment, these religious dictators are kings in their little kingdoms though they like to think big of themselves...
....................................
Yes. my pastor behaves like a King with a little Kingdom.In his earlier days- he was humble- but not anymore.The church moved to a bigger place. He has a nice air-conditioned office.He is the laid back sort.Really does nothing but to preach and I can only hear his yelling during the prayer meetings and the sermons.

Spends a lot of time with the youth.He should realize that his youthful days are over.And he is very much against bloggers- in his words- " ...satanic bloggers who run down pastors and churches".

He is not as innocent as he looks.Most of the latest gossip is spread by him to his dump sheep. And from there it spreads to the whole church.

The computer man who came to repair his computer in church made the following comment before he left " Hum Sup Kuai!!! Whatever he meant.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 11:09 AM

Anonymous said...

Let FAST and PRAY for HUMILITY and WISDOM to prevail in CC. Let's continue to Turn Off the Tap(TOTT). This is the only way to reduce their source of secular power, Greed & unGodly behaviour and wasteful worldly lifestyle !


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 1:12 PM

Anonymous said...

WHY I LOVE PUTIN


Putin boasted that “In the Kremlin NO ONE HAS ANY CONTROL OVER HIM because HE CONTROLS EVERYONE ELSE.”
And when asked about his critics, he bluntly replied “TO HELL WITH THEM.”

....................................

People like Putin are admirable because they tell people who they really are and could not care less about their critics.At least they are downright honest ABOUT THEMSELVES!!!

Now lets consider SP and whole lot of AOG creeps and religious nit wits hiding behind various Rev.titles and giving the impression that they in church as Servants of God and Jesus Christ.In my opinion and observation- the majority of them are there just to serve themselves.

Just see the amount of contributions on this blog- mostly negative!! For once In Malaysian Christian history- We Christians have a forum to air our grievances. It cannot be done in church because the shephards have.The same spirit that Putin has that operates among many AOG pastors and their churches. The only difference is- the way I see it- the AOG Rev's will never admit it that they are dictatorial.It is hidden from the flock's eyes. Instead they will surround themselves with nice speeches, Quote some Bible Verses and pull the wool over our eyes.

Just see what SP has done!!! He has got rid of all opposition and his 2 main cronies right now are the Salesman RY and that Jellyfish SK.Are his actions any difference from that of Putin?? DEpression has already set in on PO and TO.

The bloggers here have highlighted the system of the AOG- which is corrupted because of the leadership. I was stunned to read that the Rev. title is reserved for God and these AOG Quacks are using it- pre-fixed before their names!!!

And it just occured to me that in the Bible nobody was ever addressed as a Pastor let alone Rev.- There was no such thing as Pastor Paul, Or Pastor Barnabas or Timothy.

Not only that - now we have so called pastors who miraculously have Doctorates prefixed before their names!!!

THE SYSTEM NEEDS A CLEANSING BUT WE NEED TO CREATE AN AWARENESS FIRST. AND MANY OF HERE ARE OF THE HUMBLE OPINION THAT THIS BLOG IS A TINY RAY OF LIGHT SHINING IN A DEMONIC AREA.

LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED.

Lets us not be cowed by high handed dealings by so called Church Leaders.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 2:11 PM

Anonymous said...

AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF ADMINISTRATIVE LAW-MAY 2011
CONCEPTUALISING ACCOUNTABILITY [p128]

The traditional definition of accountability generally refers to the formal duties of the public agencies to account for their actions to the Parliament and ot the Courts.However, this narrow rendering has been largely discarded in favour of an extended concept of accountability or "the duty to give account for one's actions to another person or body."The broader approach properly recognizes that there are multiple strategies of accountability "involving both public and private sectors in both horizontal and vertical relationship with public decision makers."Goverment is now more complex and fragmented than originally conceived and there is a wide range of possible mechanisms by which these regulatory actors may be held accountable."

In extending an extended concept of accountability, Scott posits key questions: who is accountable, to whom and for what?

..................................
GETTING PEOPLE WITH POWER TO ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS IS AS OLD AS THE PERSONAL HISTORY OF OUR COMMON ANCESTOR ADAM.AND THEN CAIN.SAUL AND OF COURSE- THE MOST CLASSICAL OF ALL- DAVID ( in the matter of Uriah the Hittite)

The best course of action for CC right now is to gather all the flock together and cast a vote to decide---not the future of SP- but that of CC.Dont just hope and pray that the present problem will go away on its own, but after praying CC must act decisively

The voives within the church cannot and ought not - be quenched by reading some Bible verses using the pulpit.There is a colossal amount of money in question, not to mention the Church reputation. ( 9 Banks have rejected CC's application for loans.This is disgraceful for a Church.We believe and hear great things being preached within the Church but we must go the secular guys to borrow money?? ( It is like Jesus going to Satan to ask money to build God's temple)

SIT DOWN AND THINK- ALL OF YOU REMAINING AT CC!!!


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 2:55 PM

Anonymous said...

Recommendation for future of CC leadership- A suggestion.

Besides an Internal Audit Committee-there was another Committe set up namely the External Audit Commmittee. This was set up to prevent the Ruling Powers from influencing the Internal Committee since it is a confirmed historical,sociological and political fact that the power man- is usully surrounded by his cronies and are prepared to cover up misdemeanors.

The EAC is set up to ensure that expenditure of public money is appropriate, financial statements are accurate and the Inter Audit Committee will honestly state the facts as they are and not as they presented to the people.There must be no cover- ups.

Further in the last Year, the EAC was involved in a Fraud Control Plan in order to ensure that the IAC was complying with the Australians Goverment's requirements relating to fraud prevention,detection and investigation.

LETS TAKE THE RIGHT ROAD BY GODLY AND GOOD COUNSEL.


Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 3:18 PM

Anonymous said...

The following is the article from Our Daily Bread for tomorrow (16th Nov 2011), aptly entitled "BEWARE" which is timely for all Saints & especially timely for those who still remain in CC (perhaps out of blind loyalty):-

"When FBI agents train bank tellers to identify counterfeit bills, they show them both fake money and real money, and they study both. To detect a counterfeit problem, they must look for the differences in the genuine bill compared to the counterfeit—and not the similarities.

In 1 John 2, the apostle John helps to protect believers from heresy by showing them examples of counterfeit Christians and teachers. One of the signs of the last days is the coming of antichrists (1 John 2:18). Antichrists are those who claim to have His power and authority but don’t, or those who reject and oppose Him and His teachings.

John gave three marks of false teachers who are controlled by the spirit of the antichrists: They depart from the fellowship (v.19), they deny Jesus as the Messiah (v.22), and they draw the faithful away from Jesus (v.26). He encouraged believers to protect themselves against the spirit of the antichrists by depending on the indwelling presence of the Spirit, knowing the truth, and remaining in fellowship with Jesus.

We can protect ourselves from error and deception by knowing the false but relying on the Truth—Jesus Christ."

The Bottomline of the article reads as such:-

"BEWARE: The devil may add a few grains of truth to what is false."

So Calvarites, you need to be discerning to decide whether PG is still with God or he is now with the devil. It's your call & it's your choice; choose wisely as you will be answerable to Him later.

Posted by Ah Beng Returns to Calvary Today 2 at November 15, 2011 10:49 PM

Anonymous said...

IS SP LEADERSHIP A PERPETUAL SUCCESSION??

SP has once stated that he is not an employee. The message was clear enough. The CC Constitution Retirement Clauses have no jurisdiction over him. So which clause of the CC Constitution does he come under? The answer is none.The reason is that he is more powerful than the CC Cons itself.He has appointed Jim to overseer the construction of CC? Did the church ask what specific qualification Jim has to undertake such a responsibility?

It is obvious that SP has no intention of resigning let alone stepping down.It is his baby and will probably stay on until his last breath before passing the leadership on to his descendants or one of his cronies.
He is the Christian version of Putin- He controls everyone and all his critics can go to hell.


" Lift up a prayer for the remnant that is left."

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 16, 2011 1:26 PM

A supporter of ministers and the ministry said...

I read with concern some unqualified attacks and character assassination of AOG pastors, as though all AOG pastors are like what is happening in Calvary Church. Do you really think that all AOG pastors are like that? If so, then you have to visit some AOG pastors who labor without gratitude for long hours and contend with low pay and certainly do not need to have their ministries assassinated because they answered the call to serve God full time. I am curious to know what really these critics expect pastors to be and to do. Well, if you critics are the ones who pastor churches, what would you expect to be and to do, as the pastor of the church? i would really want to read your honest answers.

Let's not lose sight of the whole issue of accountability and calling sin a sin. It is something else to get on your high horse because a pastor has hurt you or you don't like what the pastor does. The point is not "to throw the baby away with the bathwater." God still calls people and they serve Him as faithful shepherds of the church.


Posted by A supporter of ministers and the ministry to Calvary Today 2 at November 16, 2011 4:30 PM

Anonymous said...

In reply to "A supporter of ministers and the ministry said" Nov 16, 4.30pm. It is an undeniable fact that many of various scandals committed are by AOG pastors. There could be a few who are sincere in heart,perhaps they should come out of these AOG system to serve God better. We are not critics as you claimed for the comments expressed in this blog was to reveal that CC leadership had committed spititual abuses on the members & their ungodly behaviours. You asked what we should do if we are to be pastors, the answers are obvious and self explanatory from the comments on their leadership which I am sure you have read. They should correct themselves.
Since you said you are a supporter of ministers & ministry, then let me ask you that after reading the comments on the CC leadership do you think they had not done wrong & still would support them? Why not you yourself tell us what you would do if you were a pastor? Also, since you are so smart to identify what should be called a sin, why not tell us exactly what actually is sinning against God?

Do you know that today, what is most lacking in churches. Its the failure of discernment of not knowing what are from God and what are from the devil. This is what happening in Calvary church.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 17, 2011 8:24 AM

A Pastors' friend said...

My 2 sen on the comment by "A supporter of minister and the ministry".

Firstly. those who have written comment of the pastors are not "unqualified attacks". They are talking about the pastor they personally know about. They are referring to specific pastors just short of naming them here openly which is good. We don't need to know who the pastors are but what they did which we should be aware of.

Secondly, we readers here are not small children. We know that there are good pastors out there. Many of us still are good friends with many pastors. My family would still speak to the CC pastors and still treat them to lunch or dinner when we meet.

Thirdly, no one here has "assassinated" any pastors ministry if they have truly laboured for God. If you read carefully the comments, most are asking to give to these faithful pastors personally or directly. Do not go through CC's offering bag.

The call is to TOTT on those pastors who want to put up lavish church buildings for their own glory, asking members to sacrifice while they themself go for expensive holidays to US, UK and Europe. TOTT is on lavish church projects. No one here is told to TOTT on good church ministries and evangelism and missions.

So pastors who are serving God faithfully should not be concerned about the negative comments because it would not fit them at all. If the pastor feels offended, then he should pray and examine his motive. Ask God why he should be offended and God will will surely reveal the truth to him.

To illustrate my meaning, if I go into a shop and then suddenly someone shouts, "THIEF THEIF". Would I be afraid of the policeman coming? Absolutely NOT! I would be excited, I would check my things to see if I lost anything but I would not be afraid if they want to search my things to see if I stole anything because I did not do it.

So the truth is, those pastors who are truly faithful in ministry are not offended by comments here at all. I believe they go to God quietly, search their hearts before God and when the peace of God comes to them, they continue serving gratefully. The evidence for this is, no church has closed down because the members TOTT on them because of comments made here. So if I were a pastor who has been faithfully serving God and His sheep, I will continue to do so but also taking note of what my members are saying to me and changing my ways if it is not right. You see, if we have not done wrong as pastors in ministry, the members will support us. We may get one or two black sheep in the church but there are more white sheep around to bring us joy and encouragement. But if the white sheep suddenly turn black against you, then your should STOP AND LISTEN. WHITE SHEEP DON'T TURN BLACK FOR NO REASON.

OK I shall stop from my long windedness now.

Have a good day.

Posted by A Pastors' friend to Calvary Today 2 at November 17, 2011 10:09 AM

Anonymous said...

Well, if you critics are the ones who pastor churches, what would you expect to be and to do, as the pastor of the church? i

TO ANWER THE ABOVE QUESTION
..................................
Well if I am the Pastor of the Church first of all I would ensure that no Pentecostal Gossip is spread by me personally to anyone. If anyone has fallen short- my duty is to pray for them, not spread tales about them. I have heard so many tales from my ex-pastor personally.From sex scandals to to divorces and ministers being "thrown out of Bible School". He definitely has serious personal issues and should find someother secular employment.He is not fit to be shepherding a flock of God.

Secondly- I would insist to stay away from church finances and would have nothing to do with the signing of Church Cheques.The people responsible for that must not be under my influence or control.

Thirdly- I would also insist that the Church Audit its accounts and put it on the Church Notice Board for all to see.In this matter, I would not want to hide anything from the sheep. ( We must do the right thing not only before God but also before men. Paul- 2nd Corinthins

The Board must be independant from me. I will never nominate someone whom I can influence OR control to do my bidding.

Further, If I want to put up a mega building, I will advice that the church must be in one accord in making this decision. I WILL NEVER AXE AND HURT THOSE WHO OPPOSE ME.THOSE WHO DO THIS ARE REBROBATES CONCERNING THE FAITH.

As a Pastor, further I will refrain from using the church premises and church name by parking my own children's ministries under various guises. BUSINESSES PARKED IN THE CHURCH'S PREMISES MUST BE CLEARLY EXPLAINED. WHO OWNS THESE MINSITRIES???

There are many more but I will stop here.

It is an undeniable fact that CIM was conveniently parked under the CC umbrella.By using the name Calvary many were unaware that it was SP's personal ministry.It only came to light when the sheep began to wake up and started asking questions.

There is hardly any merit in trying to defend these wolves in our midst. Jesus spoke to the religious leaders of His day- TO THEIR FACES.

By reading the blog here, I can see that there is much hurt and numerous sheep who are disrespected and wounded by these Religious demons lurking in AOG churches. Lets call a spade a spade.

What I have written here are my personal experiences for more than 20 years under these religious devils.

True there are good Pastors but they are usully without power and without a voice.

Finally, I am not a journalist who gets paid for writing what I ahev written here. " WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN- I HAVE WRITTEN."

Dont fall into the trap of trying to defend SP and gang. Just look at the scenario before you. SP and Sons of Belial have destroyed a worshiping church in our midst.They have caused the sheep to scatter and they must accept responsibility.

ZERO THE HERO

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 17, 2011 12:31 PM

Anonymous said...

OUR RESPONSE TO "SUPPORTER OF MINISTERS AND MINISTRY"

We suspect very strongly that "supporter of ministers and ministry" had WRONGLY made an oversweeping statement, with the very BIAISED VIEW that ALL bloggers singled out ALL MINISTERS AND MINSTRY. Actually, the opposite is the truth. We think a blatant lie is propagated by this person.

Dear "Mr or Ms Supporter", by your very act of OVERGENERALIZATION you have accused ALL the BLOGGERS OF POINTING FINGERS AT ALL MINISTERS AND MINISTERS.

"Mr or Ms Spporter", if only you please take the trouble to read and reread all comments posted in CT or CT2, you would easily discover the TRUTH that most, if not all comments have been fairly worded. Plus CT always screened out or blocked out anything wrongly posted or not acceptable to general viewing.

Many times, praise have been heaped on the GOOD GODFEARING GODSERVING MINISTERS, PASTORS, PRIESTS AND OTHER CHURCH LEADERS.

Naturally most of us use the availability of CT or CT2 to expose to the whole world, especially to other Christians the evil deeds committed and evil words
uttered by certain SINFUL CHURCH LEADERS OR CULT LEADERS - who have valid reasons to fear the TRUTH ABOUT THEIR SINFUL PAST BEING LEAKED OUT TO THE WHOLE WORLD !!!!!!!!! Only the sinners need fear the truth.

We have suspicion that you Mr or Ms supporter are trying out a dirty trick to confound and confuse TRUTH SEEKERS with your false accusation against bloggers fighting for the TRUTH about certain chruch leaders misleading and destroying their own churches from within, like what's happening to cc and elsewherein Christiandom. We know it is our Godly duty to expose such hypocrites - ravenous wolves hiding in sheepskin, money sucking parasites, and cruel authocratic dictators imposing their whims and fancies in their churches, misleading the congregation to waste hundreds of millions on building mega complexes, in honour of themselves, instead of God, while the project is not even officlally titled as church, but as a convention centre !!!!!

Worst still, the mega complex is designed by a wellknown architect who is a self admitted Freemason, a cult with international links. To rub salt to our wounds, this architect craftily incorporated Satanic symbols - a SERPENT and a PHAROAH'S TOMB into the design. (REFER to previous earlier blogs).

PLus the whole project is headed by a person WITHOUT PROPER PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING KNOWLEDGE AND PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND SKILL as the PROJECT DIRECTOR. Yet his own father appointed him to that position. Even in the secular world, there would be outcries of favouritism and nepotism leveled at such malpractices, but not in our church !!!!!!!!

What say you now , Mr or Ms supporter ?

Do not falsely accuse your brothers and sisters, lest you face harsh judgement from God Himself !!!!!! Do not practise falsehood.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 17, 2011 6:34 PM

Anonymous said...

I am a pastor (not AG) and I think that it is not helpful to criticize in an over generalized manner all AG pastors.
Statements that infer or state that one has a right to do so because it is based on personal experience with one's pastor does not justify poisoning the well.

If your pastor is acting in an ungodly manner, then it is best to be the spiritual person and follow the teaching of Matthew 18.

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

I am disturbed at what is going on at CC as this crisis reflects badly on the whole church of God in Malaysia.

However those of the TTOT group I believe have justification for their actions because they have followed the teaching of Scripture in trying to resolve the CC problems and from the evidence shown they have gone the extra mile (and more)to no avail.

If your pastor is a spiritual cad, then confront him / her and do what is necessary. If he she will not listen, then either go public (and be ready for the consequences) or "shake the dust off your feet" and walk out and find another church.

To go to church every Sunday and go home just full of criticism and bitterness does not help you. Take action.

Anonymous said...

I am really tired and sad of hearing all kinds of attacks against PG and his associates. No matter how rotten they may be, isn't there a legal way to resolve all this? There seems to be no way PG is giving up all these and from what I see, the attacks seem to be getting worse, with name calling (jellyfish SK, salesman RY) which I find are not really kind. Perhaps these two have their reasons for doing what they did, perhaps they are also under some kind of pressure - not siding them but I really don't like these hurtful name calling, no matter how they may have behaved. Let's really fast and pray that God will do something real soon. (I think) There are a lot of Christians hurting because of all this. I know I am.

Anonymous said...

THROWING A RED HERRING

We have reasons to believe that the socalled "supporter of Ministers, etc" THREW A RED HERRING - a deliberate misleading and diverting of attention from the REAL ISSUES concerning THE URGENT NEED in ALL CHURCHES to practise TRUTH, TRANSPARENCY AND GOOD GOVERNANCE.

We totally condemn such cheap attempt from "Supporter" to trick and mislead others with lies, deceit and guile.

We join the numerous others in voicing our discontent that cerain church leaders have diverted from God's Plan. They instead cater for their own selfish motives, enriching themselves while empoverishing others, empwering themselves, while weakening others, acting as parasites, hypocites, ruling as despots, openly practising nepotism, cronyism, favouritism, etc. Looking at their lives which are not shining testimonies of God's but Satan's unholy influence, we think their conscience have all died premature deaths - long long ago - on earth, not far away galaxies.

We all need to tackle the central issues of ACCOUNTABILITY, RESPONSIBILITY AND INTEGRITY from all church leaders to their respective members and the general public who support these church leaders in terms of their sacrifices in the form of time, effort, finances, etc in pursuit of the God's Grand Commission to reach out to the unsaved, to spread God's Good News, to be the salt of the earth, to shine our light to the darkness surrounding other lives - you get the drift.

Yet certain persons "Supporter" desirer to throw the spanner into the works. Yours is simply a low down act. But God's truth have excposed your rotten terrible act, "supporter" !

And you cannot stop us from spreading the truth about satanic church leaders ! Repent and change before too late.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 18, 2011 11:05 AM

lm2 said...

Have left Calvary for 3 years now. Am glad there are still updates from the administrators.

Keep up the good work - we need to expose the hidden works by Guneratnam

Posted by lm2 to Calvary Today 2 at November 18, 2011 12:49 PM

Anonymous said...

I am a pastor (not AG) and I think that it is not helpful to criticize in an over generalized manner all AG pastors.

................................
I have thought and discussed with my office colleagues AND OUR FAMILIES about the above comment and we are of the opinion there is an element of ignorance,immaturity and a nagging suspicion that this is a " voice from a protected citadel" .As Christians with family responsibilities,in Church and secular institutions we will now give our reasons why we said this.Let us tell a bit about us so you may know where we are coming from.

We are a Christian group numbering about 70 and all of us at one time used to attend different AOG churches.We are mainly families and we do not have a Pastor right now- and Oh God!!! What a blessing it has been!!We see so much cash in our hands and we do not have any building plans.WE do not just believe in Christian Charity- we practice it- regardless of race,religion OR colour.

You are of the opinion that we ought not to generalize?? Is that so Mr.Pastor?? You mean what you say?? Have you thought about the implications??

Do you want us to be specific about the following Pastors and name them??

1. A Pastor who has confessed that he has homosexual tendencies?( And the last victim was a leng chai from the secular world)

B. A Pastor who was caught in a hotel with the Church Secretary in a cheap hotel in Brickfields about 10 pm? ( Never mind about the embarassment with the whole episode when the JAWI officials appeared at the church doors.One member comes from a church where the Pastor was sleeping around with a College student.

C. Pastors who are sales people selling insurance,strange looking rocks supposed to heal people and vitamin pills- not excluding viagra and traditional Chinese Aphrodisiacs to boost the male libido)The latest is an ex-pastor attemptin to sell some " Organic Cordyceps"

D. Pastors who sit around the teh tarik stalls, with no motivation to work and spread all the latest gossip in town.

E.Reverands who are in the habit of being hurtful to others in speech and conduct.We had enough of this "spiritual authority " Dinosaur Crap!!


There are many on the list but we believe we have said enough why we cannot be specific.

We hope that you can kindly furnish us with an answer. To be specific about these So- Called Pastors generalize to ensure anonymity??

AS FOR US- WE CANNOT JEOPARDIZE THE YOUTH BY LETTING THESE FREAKS FELLOWSHIPPING WITH THEM.AS CHRISTIAN PARENTS WE CANNOT TAKE THAT RISK.

So over to you Pastor for some advice and input.

ALL OF HERE DEEPLY REGRET THAT WE HAD TO MENTION THIS- BUT THE SAFETY OF OUR CHILDREN COMES FIRST.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 18, 2011 1:30 PM

Anonymous said...

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at November 18, 2011 4:22 AM


is sound advice. Do not let bitterness remain in your heart as it would adversely affect your spiritual life. I know there are some still attending CC not out of their free will. They are there because of their wives or children. In that case receive what you can and throw the rest into the dustbin as you leave the church service.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 18, 2011 1:47 PM

Anonymous said...

AN AFTER SERVICE CONVERSATION

PASTOR: DO YOU READ CALAVARYTODAY2. BLOG??

ME: SOMETIMES.

PASTOR: DO YOU WRITE ANYTHING?

ME: NO of course not( ME LYING)

PASTOR: THOSE BLOGGERS ARE DISGRACEFUL AND PATHETIC LOSERS. JUST NO RESPECT FOR PASTORS WHO DO GOD'S WORK.

ME: MAYBE THEY ARE UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING?

PASTOR: WHAT IS THERE TO BE UPSET ABOUT?? IF THEY CANT COPE WITH THE PASTOR THEY SHOULD JUST get lost.

ME: (Thinking: why can't he Pastor leave??)
..................................

WELL BRETHREN... TALK ABOUT HUMILITY!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 18, 2011 6:44 PM

Anonymous said...

I am really tired and sad of hearing all kinds of attacks against PG and his associates. No matter how rotten they may be, isn't there a legal way to resolve all this?

..............................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
PEACE BE TO YOU.I don't think anyone is attacking any Pastor here.In my church life, I know that most,if not all church -goers are peace loving people and would not deliberately attack another Christian(demon possessed are excluded)-let alone the Pastor.I go to a church too.To me,attacking my Pastor is an unthinkable thing.All of us have shortcomings,including the Pastor,but our family really appreciates our Pastor for faithfully preaching the Word of God to us.In this morally decadent society,spending 2 HOURS within church is a great relief for me personally.

Now-if Christians are peace loving(I have yet to hear one believer scandalizing another believer within the church)why are they suddenly complaining all of a sudden?In the Old Testament,the trumpet was not sounded without a reason.If the faithful Christians songs ARE reduced to a Lamentation all of a sudden - we have to ask deeper Soul Searching questions-- WHY THE SUDDEN CHANGE?WHAT CAUSED IT?WHO CAUSED THIS?

I am surprised at the writer's question"Isn't there a legal way to resolve all this?"May I ask
"Are you the only one in Jerusalem who is ignorant of all that has taken place in our midst?"The Christians are here because the legal avenues have been exhausted.

You mentioned that you are saddened by all the attacks.Were you saddened when Dr.Lum was booted out?Was that the way to treat a very senior in Church?Or when the faithful 400 were axed OR when Liza was humiliated in full view of the church and was personally shown the door out by that Salesman-RY?Were you saddened by all this? Where on earth were all the AOG Reverend Pastors voices?

This blog was birthed for a reason- because UNNECESSARY HAS BECOME NECESSARY.

Nobody is attacking any one here. But there are Christians here who are narrating their bad experiences with their own church leadership.ALL THIS IS DONE WITH "ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY & GOOD GOVERNANCE" IN MIND.

When a leader is prepared to spend Millions on a project claiming that "God" told him to do so, kicking out anyone who stands in his way AND START TELLING HALF TRUTHS FROM THE PULPIT then something has gone terribly wrong with the Leadership.Remember,the people who visit & write here are no strangers to CC's history nor did they arrive yesterday.They have been around a long time- some were already there before SP made his very humble arrival on the scene.

2nd Corinthians 2:1
But I determined this with myself, not to make another painful visit to you.

From the above I understand that the pioneer of the Corinthian Church - Paul stayed away from them until they had sorted out some very serious issues that was causing much pain to many.His presence would have only increased the tension there.

Maybe SP should start re-reading his Bible again.Right now- he should not even be standing up to preach,taking into account all the unanswered questions relating to his leadership.WHICH HE IS AVOIDING-- $$TH$$ACCOUNTABILITY$$& TRANSPARENCY$$$QUESTIONS$$$.

FAREWELL.
REMEMBER- ALL CHRISTIAN EMPLOYEES, IF YOU GET A BONUS THIS CHRISTMAS- TAKE YOUR FAMILY FOR A NICE HOLIDAY OR HAVE A FAMILY MEAL AT A NICE RESTAURANT.DON'T PART WITH YOUR $$$ FOR ANY "SACRIFICIAL OFFERING" OR IN WHATEVER WAY THE MONEY APPEAL MAY BE FRAMED.

PEACE BE TO ALL.LET LET THE 3 PILLARS OF $$ACCOUNTABILITY, $$TRANSPARENCY & $$GOOD GOVERNANCE BEGIN FROM HERE.

PRODIGAL SONS ELDER BROTHER

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 19, 2011 12:56 PM

Anonymous said...

Dearest Brethren- Grace & Peace be to you from God our father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Another week has passed by so swiftly.Very soon and the Year will be over.For some of us there has been some changes this year but for others it was the same dull monotany week in week out. But I think for all of us it has been another year of growth.

God bless you this week and for the coming closing weeks.May God above send God fearing Shepherds to continue to guide us until all our days are expired.... as it will most certainly expire.

May those of you who have moved away from CC to to other churches, may our God cause you to take root and prosper there.Lets hope again that seasons of refreshing will come from the presence of the Lord and our spirits will once again know the glorious liberty of being set free by the Son of God.

Beloved I wish above all things that you be in good health and prosper.( 3rd John)

TO LOVE, SERVE & OBEY.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 19, 2011 3:39 PM

Anonymous said...

Three Basic Truths

From this blog, I have learned three basic truths viz:

1) Tithing is no longer applicable today, With freewill offerings, I now have some spare money to take my family to a good restaurant from time to time.

2) Pastors with Reverend titles are illegal in God’s eyes because that title belongs to God solely.

3) That there are many false preachers/teachers around, so one needs to be careful otherwise you will be led astray.

Warning: You cannot just go to church every Sunday and think your pastor will tell you everything you need to know. There are a lot of pastors/preachers that are just as lost as you, and there are also many things they want to hide from church members.

CalvaryToday – you are doing a great job. God bless you all.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 20, 2011 7:42 PM

Anonymous said...

Today's practice of tithes are neither in line with the New Testament nor the Old Testament, in purpose, quantum or form. In quantum, the old testament has 2 tithes in a year and an additional 3rd tithe in the 3rd year ( so average per year is really about 23% ). It's like a tax system in the old theocratic system of rule in old Levitical Israel.

Today the people of God are themselves a royal priesthood and a holy nation. As such the practice of New Testament giving no longer has any rigid structure since we no longer worship as under the law or levitical system, but under grace. Since under the New Testament we live under grace, giving is no longer compelled by the law ( otherwise we remain under the law and remain obligated to obsevred all OT laws ) ) but under NT it is a free will giving, drivened by the love and gratitute for what Christ has done for us, not by fear of guilt of robbing God or a hope of a hundred fold blessings in return.

Therefore in any giving, whether it is Rm 1.00 or Rm 1 million, 1 tithe or 2 tithes, it must be voluntary and given cheerfully, drivened only by the Love and gratitute for what He has done for us on Calvary. The many fold blessings we should expect is the joy we will share with the angels in Heaven, to see souls saved , the hungry fed, the sick ministered and much more that extend the Kingdom of God and His Name glorified. Do you think God is so heartless to compel a poor man who cannot meet basic needs, to give 10% of his income. Rather conversely God expects us to give to the poor brethen and for the poor brethen to receive and not be burdened by tithes.

The practice of preaching 2 sermons during Sunday service in charismatic churches is a product and influence of greedy prosperity teachers. I love the way John Piper slammed them bluntly. He HATES their faked gospel.

Anonymous said...

LEST WE FORGET – Freemasonry and Lucifer

Do not be deceived, my brothers and sisters who are still in CC and others, the CCC project was designed by a freemason architect with Satanic insignia. The design was intentional as a dedication of the project to their god Lucifer.

Good to recall what 3 earlier Anon said:

November 4, 2011 10:01 AM - The building of CCC cannot be in God's will, otherwise it would not be a big flop. God will not allow a building complex designed by a Freemason

November 6, 2011 10:15 AM - Do you honestly think that God would approve His house of worship to look and shaped like an Egyptian's Pharoah's head, similar to a "head of a cobra snake"? which is evil & satanic in nature.

Anon Nov 17, 2011 6:34 pm - Worst still, the mega complex is designed by a well-known architect who is a self admitted Freemason, a cult with international links. To rub salt to our wounds, this architect craftily incorporated Satanic symbols - a SERPENT and a PHAROAH'S TOMB into the design.

Unquote

Let me tell you something about the “god” of the freemasons and their worship – IT IS NONE OTHER THAN “LUCIFER” himself.

“Their Masonic Grand Lodges promote the teaching that Lucifer is the Holy Spirit. Although the name Lucifer is not found in the rituals of the Blue Lodge, or the York Rite or in the Scottish Rite degrees, however, one of the "Sacred Words" in the 17th Degree of the Scottish Rite is "Abaddon," the angel of the bottomless pit, mentioned in Revelation 9:11.

Worship does occur in Masonic Lodges. One of the primary purposes of Freemasonry is worship. That fact is clearly stated in the Declaration of Principles which is contained on pages 37-39 of the Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide.

Masons worship a god which they call the Great Architect of the Universe. The symbol they have chosen to represent their god is the All Seeing Eye, which the Egyptians used to represent their pagan god, Osiris. Freemasonry is classic paganism.”

Unfortunately CC has been deceptively used as a Christian front to build a Tower of Babel to reach the heavens by their senior pastors.

To those who are still with CC and other donors, do you still want to contribute your hard earned money to a SATANIC PROJECT – TOTT.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 21, 2011 10:15 AM

Anonymous said...

Pointing out the sins of ungodly pastors is not wrong. In fact, it serves as a warning to all potential victims of these wolves in sheepskin, these satanic priests who dare to distort biblical teachings, from the pulpit in churches, so often sprinkled with lots of half truths and outright lives.

These exposures of their falsehoods, waqrning of the traps they laid in deceiving the congregation to "give sacrificially" to fed their hedonistic lifestyles of teh rich and famous, from self sacrificing members - cannot be considered as attacks on such church leaders - who are hypocrites and parasites, feeding off others.

Why are they so scared of the truths about their unChristian like lives ? Why do theey want to shut up the truth seekers ? why do they not declare "CAT" (Competence, Accountability and Transparency) in church governance ? Why do they try to keep the majority in the dark about fincnaces - collected, distributed and used / abused ?

why the deafening silence from these cult leaders ?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 21, 2011 12:08 PM

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of pastors/preachers that are just as lost as you, and there are also many things they want to hide from church members.
...................................
I am very glad that you have seen a little light in this blog. Christ has set us free from the rigidity of the OT laws- I am glad that you see tithing is not compulsory for believers in Christ.This is a truth the AOG Reverend will never tell you. Its all about the bread and butter issue for them and the system they serve.

In fact, the teaching of Scriptures is this,

1 Corinthians 13:3

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor,and though I give my body to be burned,and have not charity,it profits me nothing.

Of course it profits the person who receives my offering- BUT IT PROFITS ME NOTHING.There is nothing to record before God.

Secondly about the Pastors and their Titles.In this respect I am distressed because maybe you have not met a Pastor like mine.He is really a sacrificial kind of guy and if he has personal needs-he will never mention it to anyone in the church.For this some people in our church think that he is a proud kind of person.He travels all over Asia to preach and he always uses HIS OWN salary.(Travels by Air Asia).His comment on last Christmas from the pulpit-I "If you intend to give me a Christmas offering- please address it directly to Malaysian Care!!!"

But I cannot say the same things about the Reverends from the AOG system.Many of them have become institutionalized within the system.

I remember the reason why some of us left moved away from previous the AOG Rev.There was this active group visiting hospitals and prisons. One day they had baptized someone in Death Row.When the Rev. heard of it- he was upset and said "Who licensed you to baptize?Do you have AOG credentials?"

Here was one clear example of an AOG religious demon hiding behind a Reverend title lurking in a church.He himself had no burden for the outcast and those lying in the dust.But neither will he allow those who put their hands to the plow to plough.He was not happy with the workers because they were NOT ORDAINED BY THE SYSTEM!!!

"Woe unto you Pharisees.You shut the Kingdom of God upon men's faces and neither would you enter in yourselves( Matthew)

The Christians of this generation are growing into maturity.One proof is the birth of this blog.

Let us not disappoint the next generation of believers by churning out more AOG crap.The writers observation is well founded. Most of the AOG pastors are lost themselves.

Finally I want to thank my own Pastors.WE as a church have known him over 2 decades- and we have never heard him run down anyone.He just attracts people by his ways.Now that's a real gifting.

BYE FOR NOW.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 21, 2011 1:17 PM

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of pastors/preachers that are just as lost as you

..................................
HAHAHAHAHA......FINALLY THE BLUNT TRUTH IS OUT!!!! THE ABOVE DEFINITELY APPLIES TO THE CHURCH PASTOR WHO HAS A REVEREND TITLE PRE-FIXED BEFORE HIS NAME.AND MIND YOU.... HE IS VERY LOST.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 21, 2011 2:17 PM

Anonymous said...

I agree with the latest comment. Let me add,as a senior myself, this age old saying behind every "successful" man there is a woman. let not their sweet countenance and words sound like music to your ears. for the deceptions are many. And then we have the die-hard supporters!

I say "successful" because they still reign even after CT was set up so long ago.

But then, the higher they rise, the harder the fall - THUDDDD!!!

The lost and dumb sheep must flee before they are scattered. Leave and leave them standing on thier own. Since they refuse to listen to the sheep who truly hunger for the love of God. How sad that CC has come to this. I pray that those still attending will have their eyes opened soon.

Gode Bless.
Watching and waiting

Anonymous said...

Pastors and church leaders should not be afraid to preach the Biblical truth about tithes. They know that there are basically no biblical support in the NT for the payment of tithes today, and so biblical references are mainly made from teachings of the Old Covenant to scare the people of God, but which the pastors know the people of the NEW Covenant are no longer subject under. Why then must they do that, have they no conscience at all and care not for the truth.

They also know that the only few references to tithes in the NT were in the context of the Mosaic laws to Jewish audiences that happened before the event of the final sacrifice of the Lamb of God on Calvary and before Pentecosts. But yet they chose to remain silent and hide the truth, behaving like the early Roman Catholic church. Some leaders remain silent because they chose to be team players and they don't want to upset or rock the boat. Others are lacking in faith, because they fear the congregation would no longer give and so jeopardise their own rice bowls or the church's budget and plans, particularly the ambitious ones with grandious personal ideas and plans, not nececcsarily God's plan.

Little did they realise that these are no longer the days of the early Roman Catholic church where they can hide the truth from the people. These are days when the people of God are very well informed and will not just swallow everything told to them. They want to emulate the Bereans, and with bible study and Biblical research, they will know if what their pastors are preaching is true. And now the Truth is being revealed to us to set the people of God free.

Anonymous said...

as Lm2 says: we need to expose the works of the G clan.

and many are the works done in darkness as i have heard it from a member. shame on you PG1 and PG2 still preying on the weak - rich and poor with your pack of lies. When are you going to stop your abuse? 10% of my salary eh??? and my friends' salaries too? No more you thiefs. TOTT, TOTT, TOTT.

Your time is coming. Woe to you for preaching the word of God and twisting it to feed your appetites. Set the people free for you have abused the house of God and made it a den.

There is so much frustration and anger being voiced out. Still they stubbornly stick on and shamelessly preach. Waiting for them to leave will never happen.

400 members axed and still they carry on?? The time has come to drive these unholy leaders out of CC. Do not wait. Do it now before it is too late. Before all of you are divided by the Devil.

the end is near

Anonymous said...

The practice of preaching 2 sermons during Sunday service in charismatic churches is a product and influence of greedy prosperity teachers. I love the way John Piper slammed them bluntly. He HATES their faked gospel.
..............................
Oh Come On -lah whoever wrote the above- we have 2 services in our church because we are meeting in a small shoplot and we cant afford to meet anywher else because most of the sheep are from the lower income group.The building cannot hosue more than 50 people in one sitting-so we decided to have 2 services.Many come to church on their motorbikes- and one member come to church on his motorbike-together with his whole family- wife and 3 little ones!!! There are no power games being played here and everyone is welcome and all are humble servant minded folks.And guess what?? Our Church does not have a written Constitution and so far we dont have any troubles.

Our Pastor- you cant get the likes of him one in 10,000!!! Critic of this blog - dont get angry- ask why first. The maybe there is a compelling reason behind it.

God Bless You all folks!!!( And KL Christians- please stay away from our church. Anyway, there is no air-con here and there is only 1 ceiling fan and one fan put on the table for the Sunday services.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 22, 2011 2:45 PM

Anonymous said...

Some churches have two or more services on Sunday is because it is overflowing. There is a church that I know that has to put in extra chairs along the aisles on Sunday and the carpark is so small that if one car is slow in moving out, it creates a traffic jam. The multiple services is because of the need.

Not in CC. At the 8:00am service, even tough the back portion is closed and the number of seats had been reduced (there is so much room between the rows), there are many, many empty seats. How pathetic it was at last Sunday's 8:00am service - at the pulpit, PG2 called those near where she usually sits, to come forward to fill up the front. It's not difficult finding a seat at the 10;00am service, too. 5:00pm service? Forget about it.

Gone are the days when CC is overflowing at the 10:00am service. Wonder how will CCC be filled. Probably they will close off certain sections or barricade it.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 12:20 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi Bill Eng,

Many still remembers your time in CC. You read the blog, don't you.

At the coming Youth Camp, choose your message carefully. Don't make mistakes like what SK and Ong Sek Leang did.

Many remembers the fiasco SK created regarding his handling of the collection for Pastor Phil. He had certainly alienated himself among the youths over this affair.

At the so-called historic Cornerstone laying event, Ong Sek Leang said "I do not respect people who may be right but doing it the wrong way." This is a direct reference to the concerned calvarites (or ex-calvarites) who are asking for truth, transparency and good governance. This remark of his has no connection to his message.

Be neutral and do not make any disparaging remarks and you be ok. Any hurtful remarks from you will cause resentment and erode your image among your old friend!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 12:50 AM

Anonymous said...

LOST SHEEP

we the lost sheep of cc, who are still faithfully worshipping in this church, are eagerly waiting for the return of our original Master, Lord Jesus, to claim back His Kingship in this church. Over the recent years, cc has been so "transformed" (deteriorated)into a terribly sinful place (likened to the Valley of Dry Bones, where we are so spiritually dry and practically dead - bones upon bones). we the lost sheep suffered greatly under the unholy leadership of a cult leader, with the support of unChristian assistants and immoral betrayers, while favoring Freemasonic worship and satanic symbolism.

We are waiting for the return of our Good shepherd.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 8:41 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi, I follow your saga for quite some time now and am totally on the opinion that your senior pastor is in the wrong.

But for you to report this it has to come out as professional as possible and you do not need to report it on a bias mode.

A few times you have chosen to voice the locality of the CCC - check your facts - bukit jalil is not an outskirt location that you from PJ or Damansara think it is. The Treez condominium - developed by Exsim is sold for RM650K for the CHEAPEST unit and for 1500sq feet. It sold all the units right after launching.

Likewise, you mentioned that Exsim is a small developer and that the financials has not been disclosed in the meeting held recently; and since you mentioned that the details are in public domain - readers will expect that you back up your statement - disclose the financials and then call the developer small or something. You are called to report what is right and not what you think is right.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 9:02 AM

Anonymous said...

November 23, 2011 12:20 AM referring to CC church attendance - “At the 8:00am service, even though the back portion is closed and the number of seats had been reduced (there is so much room between the rows), there are many, many empty seats ……”

A church that once was always packed house has now become a “ghost” church – that is the tragic story of CC.

What is most distressing and disturbing is that the church leaders behind CC have discredited Christianity in the eyes of the unbelievers whilst they fleeced the purse of their church members.

As “the tap is turned off – TOTT”, it is a foregone conclusion of what will happen to the CCC project and to CC.

We thank the Lord for opening our eyes to see the falsehood that is rampant in CC.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 10:18 AM

Anonymous said...

I had a DREAM recently ! I saw the " AOG World Convention " in full session at the SIME DARBY Convention centre . I search & could not see PG1, PG2 and the other Pastors at the AOG World Convention at Sime Darby Convention Centre at all. What does this DREAM means ? Anyone with Spiritual Gifts care to interpret !

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 10:35 AM

Anonymous said...

Many remembers the fiasco SK created regarding his handling of the collection for Pastor Phil. He had certainly alienated himself among the youths over this affair.

...................................Its indeed disgraceful to rip off the offering money due to visiting preachers.Even Pagans don't treat their visiting priests like that BUT the church does it and smilingly gives an explanation as to why they did it!!!Shortly stated,they think the church is made up of morons and idiots.And the visiting Pastor is powerless to do anything about it.When money is collected for someone or for a specific reason,Church Leaders must see to it that it used for that purpose only and give a proper accounting for Audit purposes.After pocketing the money and saying that "They don't need it anymore" OR "Since we paid his Airfare- now we have to right to contra it from the offering due to him" is shameful indeed and the spirit of Judas Iscariot.Where is our self respect in all this?? The church ought to find way to bless the visiting Pastor- but it is defrauding him instead.So where did the money go?? NO answers from CC until this date.(Oh I forgot!! God forgives us of all that we do!!Right??Pardon my ignorance!!)

Instead of honoring those who serve God-and welcoming and respecting them-the CC leadership finds a way of ripping them off.Moreover it left a bad impression on the youth. Aren't they supposed to learn from their leaders?Right now CC leadership does not have Paul's manner of personal conduct-"Imitate me as I imitate Christ"

The way I see it-SK and RY have no backbone.They are the "Yes Sir" men eager to do the whatever their boss tells them Right Or Wrong, no matter.Seems to me this is a bread and butter issue for them.There is a reason why they have been described as a Jelly Fish and a Salesman- and I THINK THAT THE DESCRIPTION IS RATHER FITTING.(If the hat fits- then wear it-lah Rev. Sirs!!!)

I am not surprised when that Old Religious Serpent Rev.Ong Sek Liang slyly commented-I have no respect about people who may be right but do it in the wrong way" Of course this ambitious AOG religious serpent was subtly hitting out at TTG bloggers.If he was a man of conviction,he would have taken SP and crew aside and reasoned with them gently and shown them the error of their ways.But he chose not to let his voice be heard.(Maybe after some of SPs International Preaching Connections?)

The Sheep are scattered and many are wounded,and still some fallen by the wayside and the church has become a Valley of Dry and Dead Pentecostal Bones.There is no more joy in CC.All that is left is SP's group which IN HIS MIND is his church. Right now CC is full of sceptical,suspicious,depressed and distressed people.The helpless feeling from this silent group is "For his own sake -When is SP getting off the stage? After all the damage he has done- how can he still stand up to preach "Love Thy neighbour as Thyself?" at this point of time??

Face the facts as it is and not as you would like to see it.What is before our eyes? Backslidden Pastors trying to salvage a sinking ship.They may or may not be successful with this JBV with a developer.But certainly the CC has -without a shadow of doubt-strayed a long way off course and the man at the steering is SP and Lost Crew.

"WHAT IS THIS HEAR ABOUT YOU?? HAND IN YOUR ACCOUNTS,YOU CAN NO LONGER BE MY STEWARD!!" LUKE 16.

How did we ever allow one so-called Tan Sri DR.Reverend to get us into this mess??It is a lesson for all of us.Learn well my friends=learn well.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 1:57 PM

Anonymous said...

To LOST SHEEP, Anony Nov.23rd 8.41am. Its impossible to grow spiritually in CC under the preaching of these false pastors. Time is short and you would be wasting your precious time waiting & hoping for the return of the Good Lord & Shepherd to CC. This will never happened. This AOG church is a false church under the spirit of anti-christ. Instead the wisdom of God is calling upon you to leave CC and "come out to be separated from them and be not yoked with evil doers." So why are some of you still there!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 3:11 PM

Anonymous said...

LOST SHEEP
we the lost sheep of cc, who are still faithfully worshipping in this church,

..................................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE

Who said that you are lost? YOu are not lost but the SP's leadership is but you have chosen to be faithful and go through this ruffling fire.Read this verse below. John wrote this when there were many Preachers claiming to be ordained by God.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you,and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Dearest Brethren- whoever you are.Do your quiet time before going to church.If what is said from the puplit is truth- the HS within you will confirm it. The above verse tell us that.If there is no such conviction- DONT BOTHER-it is just a mans voice peddling the Gospel using the power of a Pulpit.Dont be impressed by his preaching or eloquence.

Do not feel compelled to give anything.If you are led to feel guilty when you reach for your wallet- IT IS NOT FROM GOD.GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER AND THEY ARE NOT MADE TO FEEL GUILTY BEFORE THEY GIVE. The Christian gives because he has been blessed by the messages of God AND NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT "BUY A BRICK" offering.It is just another shameful & disgraceful AOG practice out of the woodworks- and is only now coming to light.

Many are with you and praying for the remnant that is left at CC.You are not lost.It is a season of "Balaam's" leadership that you are going through and whatever happens you would have learnt a lot indeed. A LOT INDEED.

Our hearts go out to you. You are much loved, cherished and prayed for.We may not have met, and will prabably never meet- but we are one in the Body of Christ and all of you are members of His body.Nothing can change that- NOTHING!!

We leave you now- but know for sure that we will be following the developments.This man is backslidden- and Gods favour is no more on him. Just keep that in mind whenever another $$ appeal is made.Just keep calm and keep your mind on God & Jesus.

Love you all again.Maranatha!!!

Lord God- we now commit the remnant that is left at CC for your safekeeping. Thay are your Sheep.Thank you for hearing our prayer.May your Name be Blessed forever more.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 3:29 PM

Anonymous said...

THE NEW REVISED DICTIONARY OF STRATEGIES FOR MODERN AOG DR.REV PASTOR.(Latest Strategy used until November 2011-Also known as AOG Pentecostal Crap in Layman's Terms)

TRANSPARENCY- Irritating member asking many questions.The way to deal with this situation is to invite an eloquent AOG Reverend who will throw out the big sounding word-"CLARIFICATION" We have to do this repeatedly until the enquirer just gets exhausted and sits down.No further questions.Have this trick in your bag for any future meetings.This can douse out any potential fires.

GOOD GOVERNANCE-something that exits in the imagination of the misguided Church people.It is dangerous if all the sheep start thinking for themselves SO IT IS ONLY PRUDENT WE DO THE THINKING FOR THEM. The Bible mentions that when Jesus,at the end of speaking His parables asked the crowd "What do you think?"- none of them answered correctly.It is obvious that they were not mentally competent and plain dumb morons.So it is prudent that the Pastors think for the whole church- this is the only way the church can be in one accord.Any other view is just a delusion.

If the Pastor senses any resistance in this area-he is advised to start preaching about " Submission to Authority".The preferred text is from 1 Samuel
"To Obey is better than Sacrifice".To achieve maximum effect- the Preacher is advised to shout loudest at this point- TO OBEY IS BETTER...!!!!!

This must be immediately followed by an Altar Call with sentimental music in the background.Many will come because those who don't respond the will be seen as the Disobedient ones.But you must use this strategem with caution.Once the sheep senses that this is just another trick from the system-they will move away quickly and you will be exposed as a Con.Use this trick sparingly.

Truth- This is really a Pontius Pilats' Dilemma.If any sheep asks for the truth-Preachers are advised to throw the question back to them "What Is truth??" The truth is Only Jesus is Truth but since He is already taken up into Heaven you can imagine what is left inthe church.Now truth is what the Pastor say it is.It can never be found outside the church leadership.It is only foundin the AOG leadership. If anyonelacks the self confidence- just pre-fix one or two grand sounding titles fefore your names.But usually Reverend title does the trick.basically we are the ones at the forefront and the honoured ones!!

Come-on!! After all does not the Bible say that those who preach & teach Gods Word are worthy of double honour.??

..............................
(Will be updated next year 2012 to keep up with the latest trouble makes in church.)

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 23, 2011 4:44 PM

Anonymous said...

SP: "I AM NOT AN EMPLOYEE....."

So exactly what does the above statement mean?SP claims that he is not an employee?I guess not only the Retirement Clauses in the CC Constitution are inapplicable to him,it appears that he is not Subject to the Labor Laws in Malaysia.That is really an enviable position to be in.No workman is Malaysia has been able to claim that position to date!! Perhaps his name should be inserted in the Guinness Book of World Records.The following questions come to my mind.

* So who is he really subjected to?
* Exactly who does HE(meaning SP) report to?
* How was he able to park his *
personal ministry(CIM)under
Calvary's umbrella without
raising anybody's suspicion for
so long?This mountain rat has been nibbling away at the church $$$. No doubt about that.
* Is there someone at CC that he
is accountable to? Is there a
name?
* I am sure there must be someone out there. (Don't bother the Jellyfish & the Salesman.These 2 boneless are just good for twisting the scriptures and telling half truths from the Pulpit)

This man is setting a precedent for the other AOG Reverend Pastors who are viewing this whole Calvary Church "Drama Minggu Ini" from the shadows.In fact most of the AOG Pastors position seems to be unquestionable.The belief goes like this- Since they are the overseers of the Church- their position and action cannot be questioned. But they can remove any Member of the Board if they "don't share the same vision" of the Church.What they really mean is that if the particular member does not share "his" vision FOR the church- you get booted out.

Which makes this battle all the more necessary.Its all about principles Transparency & Accountability.

The AOG house is not built on Scriptural Foundations.It is a house built for self glory and status, wealth and position are very important in the eyes of most of these leaders.(Of course,they will never admit this)Envy among themselves is not uncommon.

Can anyone out there, please let me know? I am prepared to listen even if you are a Calvary faithful.Is this man accountable to anyone? Who does he report to?
And lastly,who does your Reverend Pastor report to?

TINNED JELLYFISH MANUFACTURER

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 3:41 PM

Anonymous said...

This is to inform all CC members that a new restaurant has been opened at CC premises.The Menu can be collected from the Pulpit after the Sunday Service.Don't miss the opportunity to eat food prepared by Blessed hands!!

MENU- HOUSE SPECIAL

1.DEEP FRIED NOODLES WITH MATURED MOUNTAIN BAMBOO-ALL AXED & WHACKED TO FINE STRIPS FOR EASY CONSUMPTION.

2.TRANSPARENCY GLASS NOODLES- ALL SAUCED WITH SPECIAL CC SAUCE MADE IN OUR OWN GALLERY AND COOKED TO PERFECTION UNTIL TRANSPARENCY IS GONE.VERY TASTY BUT ONLY LITTLE NUTRITIONAL VALUE.PLEASE KEEP BIG HANDKERCHIEF AS THIS IS A MESSY DISH.

3.TRUTHFUL NOODLE SOUP - ALL MIXED WITH LEEKS,ONIONS AND GARLIC & SALTED FISH.BEST SERVED WITH JAPANESE "JELLYFISH" SUSHI.100% BONELESS!!
(CHEF'S RECOMMENDATION- ORDER FROM OUR SALESMAN AT FRONT DOOR- ALSO CAN!!)

4. HOUSE SPECIAL-GOOD GOVERNANCE FRIED RICE WITH A VARIETY OF SPICY INGREDIENTS.SERVED WITH FRIED PRAWNS WITH REVERENDS THICK OYSTER SAUCE.BEST EATEN WITHOUT ASKING FOR CLARIFICATIONS AS TO THE INGREDIENTS.

5.PLEDGE FUND YAM CAKE SERVED WITH DRIED CHILLIES AND CASHEW NUTS- SHAPED & STEAMED TO LOOK LIKE THE FUTURE CCC BY OUR OWN CHEF.
(THIS IS A BIT PRICEY-ITS OKAY TO BORROW MONEY TO EAT THIS DISH)

THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!! GOD BLESS YOU!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 4:12 PM

Anonymous said...

FLOW OF MONEY

We would like to share some thought provoking issues affecting governance in organizations including churches in relation to flow of money.

The following is extracted from "Flow of money" by David Korten (iJourney.org - Jun 07, 2011).

Mr Korten said:
"We have heard that money is the root of all evil. Evil is that which is destructive of life. so follow the money and you will see the source snd consequences of the evil that threatens the viability of human societies and the biosphere."

Mr Korten elaborated further :
"Money however, is only evil when it becomes our master and confines us to lives of isolation. We can eliminate its evil dimension by restructuring the institution of money to make money our servant - to serve the community of life rather than to destroy it."

"This great work begins with some basic questions. What is money ? Where does the money come from ? Who decides who gets it and for what purpose ? Who decides who will make these decisions ? What is the outcome ? "

At this crucial juncture, we almost fell out out of chairs because it is as if Mr Korten is talking about the situation in cc ! He seemed so incredibly familiar with the "money matters" in cc !

Where does the money come from ? From PeeGee1 ? And G family ? From BOD ? From Ass Ps ? Or from the congregation (aka dumb sheep) ?

Who decides who gets it ?
Very important question, right ? PeeGee1 ? PeeGee2 ? BOD, yes or no ? Ass Ps ? All of them ? None of the above ? God ? Or the devil ?

Of course, on this very pertinent subject matter, we all (dumb sheep)know by heart now that, we got the "right" (or rather, please read "privilege") to give, give and give BUT .... ABSOLUTETLY NO RIGHT TO QUESTION where the money goes to ?, to whom ?, how much to whom or what ?, etc.

To put it very bluntly - NONE OF OUR BLOODY BUSINESS how they spent OUR MONEY. of course they got a lawyer to do this dirty work - though he puts it in a professional jargon, maybe to frighten we dumb sheep, with the legal terms and conditions, etcetra, etcetra, etcetra ! (Reminds us of the movie "The King and I", starring Yul Bryner). Best part - no charges - free of charge (as an afterthought by lawyer! Wah !, untungnya PeeGee1 !)

Mr Kortern mentioned restructuring the institution of money, to serve us, not master over us. We dumb sheep should remove and overthrow all signs of the current oppressive administration of the satanic priest, who lords over all of us via blatant misinterpretation of church constitution with selective dubious facts and figures, changing of constitution to strengthen his grip over the church, making him almost "untouchable" and "invincible".

And we should move towards such direction with God's help, to save our beloved church from being internally destroyed by someone who betrayed our earlier trust and love, exchanging them with hatred, deception, division, disorder and evil. God help us.

We have to ensure that future sp must not have any say over money matters of the church. And the constitution must protect the rights of the congregation esp all members who can always exercise their right to immediately remove any church leader, once proven guilty, of any major infrigngement via EGM. Same for any member of the BOD who must be nominated and voted by members, not appointed by sp.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 5:05 PM

Anonymous said...

I once heard an AOG Pastor preaching that all the Old Testament blessings are available for the modern Christian.When I asked about the OT curses - he mentioned vaguely that the Curses are done away in Christ.

Here is how I see it. The Bible has hundreds of promises but all of these promises are powerless. It can only be activated not by prefixing a Dr.Rev. title before our name- but these promises only come alive if the word " obedience" is prefixed in the Christians life.

That is the context of Moses Sermon.

THE COVENANT

OBEY MY VOICE===BLESSING.

DISOBEY MY VOICE==== PLEASE READ FOR YOURSELF .DEUT 28,29

.................................

NOAH OBEYED GOD - OBEDIENCE

SO CC FOLKS MUST ALSO SUPPORT THE NEW BUILDING== SAME OBEDIENCE

CONCLUSION= THIS IS NOT JUST A THOUGHTLESS TWISTING OF SCRIPTURES BUT A PLAIN STUPID WAY OF INTERPRETING THE BIBLE.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 5:33 PM

Anonymous said...

Pastors and church leaders should not be afraid to preach the Biblical truth about tithes.
..............................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE

Sometimes I suspect that the Pastors only preach from materials downloaded from computers or preaching what other preachers have been preaching.Its so easy to get sermons from Google these days. Everything is canned in a tin.So for example,if someone wants to preach on- say "Demonized Christians" or "Conquering The Enemy Within" just key in the words onto Google and lo- and behold- a whole lot of Crap appears on the screen.You don't even have to number them.Everything has been done for you already.

NOW JUST PRINT OUT AND PREACH!!!YEAH! AND SINCE MOST OF THE BELIEVERS WHO ARE BIG IN TITHING ARE FROM THE USA,AND MALAYSIAN CHURCH IS MORE INFLUENCED BY THE US THAN THE UK PREACHERS- YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY TITHING IS PREACHED AS COMPULSORY HERE.I USED TO THINK THE THAT THE US CHURCH IS SO COMMERCIALIZED BUT IT HAS ALREADY ARRIVED ON OUR SHORES!!!MERCY ON US - O LORD!!!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 5:56 PM

Anonymous said...

ACTIONS AND THOUGHTS BEYOND COMMON LOGIC

Puzzle : What sort of church leader would does his utmost best to destroy his own church from within by his following actions:
1. apparently indulging in behaviors and thoughts unbecoming of a church leader,
2. apparently transfering of funds without informing the church members to a personal ministry,
3. apparently mistreating his church staff, including low pay, lomg hours and accomodation in the form of a store room,
4. apparently alienating the church youths by directing a subordinate pastor to lie to them concerning collection for a visiting foreign pastor, then caused confusion over what actually happened, when he confirmed NOT receiving the said offering specifically to him by the youths,
5. apparently sacking his own trusted deacon based on allegedly thrumped up charges,
6. apparently removing all home life leaders, teachers, and others in the church hierarchy, due to his suspicion of their opposition to him or his authority,
7. apparently deciding to terminate the church choir despite the appeal from the rest not to do "dissolve" it, resulting in the church without a choir of its own,
8. apparently making drastic changes to the membership status of 400 plus members, voting and non voting, resulting in the sacking of these 400 plus members,
9. apprently constantly appealing to members to give sacrificially to the church building fund to build a mega complex,
10. apprently telling the congregation to "jump into the lake" or "get lost" if they are not happy in his church,
(This list is not exhaustive)
.... and now he wants to find more people, very much more people, to fill up the new church ? !!!
(and to fill up the collection bags !!!!!)


What sort of leader do we want ? Like this ?

Baaaa ! Baaaa ! Baaaa !

Baaaa ! Baaaa ! Baaaaa !


Are we stupid or what ?

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 7:24 PM

ANOTHER SMALL FRY said...

Nov 26th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Impressive debut for The Treez in Bukit Jalil
By E Jacqui Chan of TheEdgeProperty.com
Friday, 26 Nov 2010

In the article the writer wrote that 'The Treez has got off to a great start with sales of over 90% in less than three months.'
The writer also quoted 'It was an unexpected response considering this is Exsim's first residential project, said Michael Yam, sales and marketing director of Jalil Max Development Sdn Bhd, a subsidiary of Exsim.............'
In the same article it also mentioned that The Treez, comprises of 135 condominium units, 13 condo villas, 15 link villas and five penthouses covering 2.6 acres and it fronts the 80-acre Bukit Jalil International Park and has a gross development value (GDV) of RM190 million.........................

The above is quoted from the internet.

Anonymous wrote...But for you to report this it has to come out as professional as possible and you do not need to report it on a bias mode...........
The Treez condominium - developed by Exsim...... It sold all the units right after launching..................
You are called to report what is right and not what you think is right..........................
A few times you have chosen to voice the locality of the CCC - check your facts - .............

Dear readers of this blog. i was exposed to AOG doctrines since the early seventies and from the very beginning i have come to believe without question that people who become full time workers for God including AOG pastors are very very special people that God has called.

They really suffered and sacrificed everything (career, personal interests, money etc...) to become poor church workers who don't even know where their next meal will come from and where the roof over their heads will be. God has really blessed me with the privilege to play host and be co-worker with some of such humble evangelists and pastors in reaching out to people in small towns and villages. Praise God for such God's people.

However thanks to this blog birthed because of the CCC saga i finally realise after more than thirty years that besides these humble genuine pastors and church workers, there are others who will take advantage of nice God-fearing sheep to manipulate them by feeding them with questionable doctrines. No questions asked. Touch not God's anointed.etc etc

Becos of this blog many ignorant sheep has become wiser and realised the many deceptions of such ungodly church workers!!

Recently i noticed some bloggers are trying to stop the good work this blog is doing. They subtlely implied that some writers of this blog are not checking their facts, are judging others (judge not lest you be judge...sounds familiar??...and like a warning???), degrading pastors etc.

i leave it to the readers of this blog to form their opinion of the above blog related to the JV by anonymous. i personally checked with the persons from the developer concerned who confirmed they sold all the units after MORE THAN TWO MONTHS, NOT RIGHT AFTER LAUNCHING.

Locationwise, the project fronts the 80-acre Bukit Jalil International Park not some busy noisy highway. Treez's GDV of 190million covers 2.6 acres while CC commercial land is only 1.75 acres. Wonder who's not getting the facts right!!!

Whatever it is i believe the writers of this blog are genuinely concerned becos of their love for CC. To quote one writer..'i am not a journalist who gets paid for writing what i have wrtten here'. Yes, thanks to all the writers for exposing what should not have been done in the first place. It really saddens us to see the massive debts CC is getting into.

To anonymous November 23, 2011 3:29 PM.
We the remnant at CC are really touched by your prayers and concern and what you have written. Remember also that there are many of us here who are with you too.

i am sure TRUTH TRANSPARENCY ACCOUNTABILITY AND GOOD GOVERNANCE WILL PREVAIL IN THE END.

ANOTHER SMALL FRY

Posted to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 9:29 PM

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